WW1 Canadian Sniper - What rifle?

"Out of nowhere" ;great book on sniping. I ordered it in to a Chapters.
50 $ if I recall; kind of pricey, but worth it. The was one floating around the provincal library system in Alta, I read it and had to have it. Lots of info; written by a British sniper from WW2( I think...I'm away working, it's at home). I would highly recommend reading it if the history of sniping interests you.
 
One reason we went to the Ross rifle is that the Minister of Defence before the war asked if the Enfield could be produced in Canada, the answer was no, it had to be made in and bought from the UK. So thats one reason why we had the Ross. whats also intresting that other nations had stright pull bolts during WW!, and they had no problems with their rifles. the ross was to finely machined and tight fitting and soft cheaper metals where used, thus one reason why the locking lugs pounded out and locked up, plus the heart helped to expand the metal. So heat expansion and dirt where the main problems for the Ross.
 
I remember about 20 years ago reading an article about the Ross and Enfield trials in my grandpa's Legion magazine. If memory serves, the Ross supporters where accused or over-oiling the Enfield's bolts in an attempt to attract more dirt, etc. The enfields still outperformed the Ross, but the Ross was adapted.
 
Ahem! Buy the books. Squash the rumours. Support Canadian publishing. Non sponsor dud dub dub servicepub dot ca, "UpClose" series of booklets:

SPB011 - #4 "A Question of Confidence - The Ross Rifle in the Trenches", Col. A.F. Duguid, $29.95 (Edited by Clive M. Law)
A new treatment of the Ross history written between the wars by the Army's Official Historian. This story has only appeared as an Appendix (No. 111) to the 1938 Official History of the CEF. 48pp, 19 Ill. Available from mid-October 2008

#8 - Without Warning - Canadian Sniper Equipment of the 20th Century, Clive M. Law
The first serious study of Canadian-made and Canadian-issued sniper equipment. Included are the rifles, uniforms and optics used from the First World War through to the Afghan war.
 
RMXC51 said:
My great grandfather served as a sniper in the 46 battalion, BEF. Enlisted November 1915. Would he have used a scoped Ross, or an Enfield as a primary weapon? Nobody in the family knows, they just know he was a crack shot right up until he went to the old folks home.

Also, I have a copy of his battlefield will, which shows him attached to the 10th brigade machine gun company. Would snipers be attached to such a unit, or would he have been serving in a different role then (July 1916)?

Thanks for the help in adavnce I hope!
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Just out of curiosity, was he in the British Expiditionary Force, or the Canadian Expiditionary Force?
 
canuckchap said:
The decision to equip the canadians with the Ross was the decision of the canadian defense minister and was made for personnal reasons as well (He was friends with those supplying the rifles, and undoubtedly gained financially as well!) He is also the same minister who would routinely play "dress up", in a military uniform, started CFB Valcartier as a training base and issued canadians with the entrenching spade with the hole in it. He believed they could also use it as a sheild, and observe the enemy through the hole!! This were immediately ditched when the soldiers arrived in England.

The canadian political history of the late 1890's and eaily 20th century is VERY interesting!
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Must have been the same guy who issued cardboard soled boots to our soldiers, and painted horses black..
 
canuckchap said:
The decision to equip the canadians with the Ross was the decision of the canadian defense minister and was made for personnal reasons as well (He was friends with those supplying the rifles, and undoubtedly gained financially as well!) He is also the same minister who would routinely play "dress up", in a military uniform, started CFB Valcartier as a training base and issued canadians with the entrenching spade with the hole in it. He believed they could also use it as a sheild, and observe the enemy through the hole!! This were immediately ditched when the soldiers arrived in England.

The canadian political history of the late 1890's and eaily 20th century is VERY interesting!
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He also, very graciously, nominated HIMSELF for a Victoria Cross.
 
Greenfield's Baptism of Fire- a book about 2nd Ypres- suggests that the Ross didn't like to be fed British made .303. It also suggests that Hughes knew about this years in advance. Interestingly the RNWMP ditched the Ross in 1906 for exactly the reasons that plagued the CEF.

In the book, many veterans swear that the Germans would not have broken through and the casualties would have been far lighter had the Canadians been using the Lee Enfield.
 
canuck98k said:
Greenfield's Baptism of Fire- a book about 2nd Ypres- suggests that the Ross didn't like to be fed British made .303. It also suggests that Hughes knew about this years in advance. Interestingly the RNWMP ditched the Ross in 1906 for exactly the reasons that plagued the CEF.

In the book, many veterans swear that the Germans would not have broken through and the casualties would have been far lighter had the Canadians been using the Lee Enfield.
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I read they ditched the ross for becasue the bolts fell out as they had no bolt stop.

Pete
 
"...two years after the RNWMP took delivery of the Mark I version, the assistant commissioner reported that the rifles were unsatisfactory, particularly the magazine action, extractors failed to work, in rapid fire jams were frequent even in the hands of experienced men, and he did not think they were safe for rapid fire. The RNWMP withdrew the Ross Mark I from service"

P 437-438 Baptism of Fire Nathan M. Greenfield


As far as sniper use, the shooter could easily pre select good ammo, and rapid fire should not be a problem.

The other question that arises is how much rapid fire did the RNWMP expect to be doing?
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Ahem! Buy the books. Squash the rumours. Support Canadian publishing. Non sponsor dud dub dub servicepub dot ca, "UpClose" series of booklets:

SPB011 - #4 "A Question of Confidence - The Ross Rifle in the Trenches", Col. A.F. Duguid, $29.95 (Edited by Clive M. Law)
A new treatment of the Ross history written between the wars by the Army's Official Historian. This story has only appeared as an Appendix (No. 111) to the 1938 Official History of the CEF. 48pp, 19 Ill. Available from mid-October 2008

#8 - Without Warning - Canadian Sniper Equipment of the 20th Century, Clive M. Law
The first serious study of Canadian-made and Canadian-issued sniper equipment. Included are the rifles, uniforms and optics used from the First World War through to the Afghan war.
Click to expand...

And there is also "The Ross Rifle Story".
There is a lot of factual information available.
Incidentally, it was not all British ammunition that was a problem. Certain contractors made poor ammuntion. The chamber drawings for Lee Enfields were revised because of ammuntion problems. Canadian machinegunners using Colt-Browning guns would pass all rounds through the T slot of their spare bolts before loading belts, to insure that they were not going to have stoppages because of the same thick rims that plagued the Ross rifles.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Ahem! Buy the books. Squash the rumours. Support Canadian publishing. Non sponsor dud dub dub servicepub dot ca, "UpClose" series of booklets:

SPB011 - #4 "A Question of Confidence - The Ross Rifle in the Trenches", Col. A.F. Duguid, $29.95 (Edited by Clive M. Law)
A new treatment of the Ross history written between the wars by the Army's Official Historian. This story has only appeared as an Appendix (No. 111) to the 1938 Official History of the CEF. 48pp, 19 Ill. Available from mid-October 2008

#8 - Without Warning - Canadian Sniper Equipment of the 20th Century, Clive M. Law
The first serious study of Canadian-made and Canadian-issued sniper equipment. Included are the rifles, uniforms and optics used from the First World War through to the Afghan war.
Click to expand...

"A Question of Confidence-the Ross Rifle in the Trenches" is listed at Amazon.ca for $906.53!
 
You're right, attestation paper is titled Canadian Over-Seas Expeditionary Force.
Basic rundown of service:

Joined November 8, 1915
Arrived in England June 29, 1916
Proceeded overseas Aug 10, 1916
Served 10 days field punishment no. 1 for "hesitating to obey an order" Oct 12, 1916 (nobody knows what for)
Treated multiple times for appendicitis and ear infections, nothing serious was done until Sept 28, 1918 when he was wounded in the leg (again, he never told anyone in the family he'd been wounded)
Discharged May 12, 1919
 
Nobody knows what order he hesitated on, but I do know that no.1 SUCKED.

He came back with a profound mistrust/loathing of Belgians.
 
Field Punishment Number One, often abbreviated to "F.P. No. 1" or even just "No. 1", consisted of the convicted man being placed in fetters and handcuffs or similar restraints and attached to a fixed object, such as a gun wheel, for up to two hours per day. Their arms would be strenched out and their legs tied together. This was applied for up to three days out of four, up to 21 days total. This humiliating punishment was intensely disliked by the soldiers, who nicknamed it "crucifixion". It has been alleged that this punishment was sometimes applied within range of enemy fire.
 
Forcedair said:
"A Question of Confidence-the Ross Rifle in the Trenches" is listed at Amazon.ca for $906.53!
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That is amazing! It proves the point to buy good books when you see them, because once they go out of print the price will go up.

The Ross book is a strange one. The first author died half-way through the writing. The second writer picked up the pieces and did a pretty good job of finishing it up.
 
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