New optic needed...opinions wanted.

rajczak_kashka said:
Well........I do not speak from the world of speculation,rumor or "what I read somewhere".....I own and use the following optics:
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Dude, you don't think there might be a few guys on this board who may have used the optics in the real world that you play with on the range?

Go on a board like LF.net that is populated with a more experienced crowd and you will find that generally Elcans of any and all variety are held in low regard.

Even pretending that there are no issues with the optic itself, it is on an ARMS mount. There is no way to increase tension on the throwlevers. With use, the mount will get looser and looser. I guess you could always shim it with tinfoil...

It is also heavy. If you are using the rifle somewhere other than the range, perhaps in the mountains of Afghanistan this becomes an issue:

Weight comparison:
- ACOG RCO/MCO TA 31F with any mounting option 16.1 oz-17.8 oz
- NF 1-4 NXS, S&B SD, Meopta 1-4x, Trijicon 1-4x, Leupold 1.5-4x, or any of those combos with the mounting option, 16.5 oz-18.2 oz
- SU230 Elcan 17.3 oz
- Aimpoint T-1 on LT 606 and 3x on LT 649 Pivot Mount 10.7 oz

If this optic was the catass you proclaim it is, guys (including myself) would be all over them. The market is still crying out for a true 1-4x, reasonable weight, RELIABLE optic. So far, all of the options come up short in one or more of those criteria.

rajczak_kashka said:
Spectre DR is current issue to USSOCOM. Many operators replaced the ACOG ECOS with these for the same reasons that I mentioned in earlier posts. There were some "issues" with gen 1 models that have since been rectified. These issues were related to shift as was also mentioned, I believe by you.
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Just because an item is issued does not mean it is a good piece of kit. It may surprise you to learn that there are other factors at play when equipment is selected...politics,etc.

rajczak_kashka said:
You are not the only person on this board who "knows" folks in the field. You should never assume that you are. Most guys I know wear stars and stripes on their shoulder though....Have many friends at Fort Lewis.
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:jerkit:
 
:eek:
Big_Red said:
Dude, you don't think there might be a few guys on this board who may have used the optics in the real world that you play with on the range?

Go on a board like LF.net that is populated with a more experienced crowd and you will find that generally Elcans of any and all variety are held in low regard.

Even pretending that there are no issues with the optic itself, it is on an ARMS mount. There is no way to increase tension on the throwlevers. With use, the mount will get looser and looser. I guess you could always shim it with tinfoil...

It is also heavy. If you are using the rifle somewhere other than the range, perhaps in the mountains of Afghanistan this becomes an issue:

Weight comparison:
- ACOG RCO/MCO TA 31F with any mounting option 16.1 oz-17.8 oz
- NF 1-4 NXS, S&B SD, Meopta 1-4x, Trijicon 1-4x, Leupold 1.5-4x, or any of those combos with the mounting option, 16.5 oz-18.2 oz
- SU230 Elcan 17.3 oz
- Aimpoint T-1 on LT 606 and 3x on LT 649 Pivot Mount 10.7 oz

If this optic was the catass you proclaim it is, guys (including myself) would be all over them. The market is still crying out for a true 1-4x, reasonable weight, RELIABLE optic. So far, all of the options come up short in one or more of those criteria.



Just because an item is issued does not mean it is a good piece of kit. It may surprise you to learn that there are other factors at play when equipment is selected...politics,etc.



:jerkit:
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Damn, all this from the resident #### star :p:D Isnt it bukkake night tonight? ;)

A year or so ago, I was thinking about the DR and did go on Lightfighter to research it abit... the sheer amount of scorn and ridicule heaped on this site made me wonder if it could even function effectively as a door stop.

Granted the most abuse it might see in my hands is if I fall down the range stairs, but still its alot of cash to layout for something that longterm will get wobbly on you. Lastly what is the mystery metal that ARMS uses in their mounts...
 
It amazes me how much great advice I've read on CGN (and LF) but you do have to listen. When folks who've been there and done that (and didn't even get a sh*tty T shirt for it) give you the benefit of knowledge they've literally risked their lives learning, and they do so freely and with no self interest, the correct response is "Thank you". Amazingly enough, following this advice has always led to complete satisfaction on my part, (VCAS, Raven Concealment, etc.) who'd a thunkit.
 
Just a reminder, a few years ago some of the same people here were advising on how the ACOG’s were the best optics referencing them as the current kit of choice in the mid-east wars and highly praised on gun forums such as ARF, NF etc in attempt to validate their opinions. But we all know some of short comings of the ACOGS. Then there was the S&B SD and we all know the short comings of these optics and now we have a rebirth of the Aimpoints and we all knew the previous short comings of these optics and there will surely be some in the future. Oh but wait we now have the Leopold CQBSS!

IMO don’t be afraid to experiment with different brands of optics, test drive if you can and remember opinions are good but some are just that opinions.

IMO just some common components and specifications I seriously consider before buying a good quality scope: Fog proof, shock proof, submersible to several feet, nitrogen purged and filled, good solid main tube construction, clear glass, a reticle that works for me, a reticle that does not rely on batteries, (low profile knobs - less chance of breaking - less visual signature - less forward obstruction), shortest tube possible, lightest weight possible, a no hassle lifetime transferable warranty, a warranty depot in my country.

Oh, and beware battle proven optics does not necessarily mean the optics are “the best“ for you, because there is no “best“. All optics are prone to breakage. S&B, NF and Aimpoint all break just fine when abused. There’s plenty of opinion here and just that, half a dozen of this, a dozen of that. Selecting optics is a dynamic venture, always changing, always evolving - some devolving. No one scope is the be all, end all. Get what works for you, get what you can afford, get out and shoot.
 
WWIII said:
Just a reminder, a few years ago some of the same people here were advising on how the ACOG’s were the best optics referencing them as the current kit of choice in the mid-east wars and highly praised on gun forums such as ARF, NF etc in attempt to validate their opinions. But we all know some of short comings of the ACOGS. Then there was the S&B SD and we all know the short comings of these optics and now we have a rebirth of the Aimpoints and we all knew the previous short comings of these optics and there will surely be some in the future. Oh but wait we now have the Leopold CQBSS!

IMO don’t be afraid to experiment with different brands of optics, test drive if you can and remember opinions are good but some are just that opinions.

IMO just some common components and specifications I seriously consider before buying a good quality scope: Fog proof, shock proof, submersible to several feet, nitrogen purged and filled, good solid main tube construction, clear glass, a reticle that works for me, a reticle that does not rely on batteries, (low profile knobs - less chance of breaking - less visual signature - less forward obstruction), shortest tube possible, lightest weight possible, a no hassle lifetime transferable warranty, a warranty depot in my country.

Oh, and beware battle proven optics does not necessarily mean the optics are “the best“ for you, because there is no “best“. All optics are prone to breakage. S&B, NF and Aimpoint all break just fine when abused. There’s plenty of opinion here and just that, half a dozen of this, a dozen of that. Selecting optics is a dynamic venture, always changing, always evolving - some devolving. No one scope is the be all, end all. Get what works for you, get what you can afford, get out and shoot.
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Good advice. Because it works for someone else doesn't mean it will work for me. I currently use a Falcon Menace 1.5 and an Eotech 552. I'm not a door kicker but i'm happy with both. However I have been sizing up the IOR offerings lately. Pick what works for you and use it...
 
There are other sites (like the aforementioned Lightfighter) that have plenty of people with plenty of knowledge and experience who very much dislike the Elcan.

My own experience as a reservist with the C79 Elcan (different optic but same style of mount) is that a great many of them are loose and I had one fall off. I had a friend who lost hers in the field when it fell off the mount as well. Admittedly, our's are older ones on rifles issed to reserve units but even newer models seem to have many of the same issues, and there's plenty of discussion about them here and elsewhere (army.ca for instance). Based on what I've read on places like LF, they haven't corrected those issues, and added new and even more exciting ones like zero shift when switching from 1-4x. I'd love to love the Elcan, and would love a working Spectre that I could trust, but I don't trust it enough to spend $2k on it and I would recommend against anyone doing it when there are other options out there, that the more knowledgeable and experienced types have used and advocate.

PS., Big Red, you have any experience with the Trijicon TR24? I just recently learned about it and for the cost, and being from Trijicon, it's piqued my interest as an option for personal use, on an eventual 16 inch build, and on the C7 if/when I get a chance at a tour and if I'm allowed non-issue optics.
 
imo

i have an aimpoint t1, comp m3, eotech 511, eotech 531, burris xt-135, and last but not least the elcan spectre dr... i agree that the aimpoint is a great and reliable product, but the moa on the dots are way too big!!! the eotech's are perhaps less reliable, but the 65 moa ring with the 1 moa dots are perfect!!!! but if you have the money i suggest the elcan spectre dr, the quality of the optic is unsurpassed and aside from weight issues is great for 100m plus targeting. just my opinion..
 
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