Antique handgun for putting down Your Deer.

Would you use a Antique hand gun for putting down Your Deer.

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H Wally said:
AHA! You have fallen prey to the CFC/RCMP Ministry of Information!

That is what they say. That is what they would like. IT IS NOT THE LAW.
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There are transport regulations for antiques as I posted above from SOR 98/209

I repeat:

ANTIQUE FIREARMS

14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.

(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.

(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.
 
It's thinking like this that gets laws changed for the worst. Never believe it when a ranger tells you it's ok to break the law. I can't believe you would even post it. Keep giving the tree huggers information for more reasons to ban all handguns!!!!!!!!!!!
 
junkman said:
It's thinking like this that gets laws changed for the worst. Never believe it when a ranger tells you it's ok to break the law. I can't believe you would even post it. Keep giving the tree huggers information for more reasons to ban all handguns!!!!!!!!!!!
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I've got to agree for the most part most of these questions have been answered already . Some of the recent threads just make me shake my head read the antique laws and your provincial hunting regs. If you are going to own A antique firearm be responsible enough to know the law regarding them . You will find some good info on CGN but you will also get alot of wrong info.
 
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There's a free case of Molson Canadian for the first person on here who can actually prove my statements about antique handguns in ONTARIO wrong with quoted text from provincial or federal law.

BTW you gotta pick the beer up.... LOL

Well I'll top that I'll send you a pallet of Molson Canadian if you go rabbit hunting tommorow (assuming rabbit season is open) Call the conservation officers before you leave the house and tell them where you will be hunting and that you will be using an Antique Handgun. Just make sure you bring a cheap disposable antique and store the rest of your collection at a friends. You'll need to pawn em to get bail. LOL.
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There's lots of things that people get arrested for, that aren't neccesarily illegal. I try not to push the limits when afield, however I refuse to go on the basis that everything is illegal unless someone (government or otherwise) says it isn't. Do you have any idea how many people think hunting canada geese is illegal? The only law that matters in the end is written, not percieved.

BTW, No one's claimed that beer.... LOL
 
The Minister and the Lt Gov, who generally does what the minister asks, can make the rules and the summary hunting regulations are those rules.
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They are a summary of the regulations and are not to be taken as correct without referring to the act. (That's written in the summary as well)

The hunting regulations state handguns which eliminates antiques too.
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Technically, the act does not contain the word handgun. It does contain the words restricted and prohibited. Antiques are neither.


Regardless Southlander, I'd still buy you a cold one just for the sake of a good debate....
 
Southlander said:
:agree: Well said!
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x2. I don't have a current copy of the BC hunting regs, but I clearly remember a couple of years ago,reading under "It is illegal to", "Hunt game with a handgun". That was "Handgun", not restricted firearm. If you're packing a rifle, hunting deer, with your antique pistol on your belt, you would be "Hunting game with a handgun". Deliver the coup de gras with your .32 RF, and you're not just hunting with a handgun, you're hunting game with a rimfire! We have a good thing going with the whole antique thing, and all it will take to destroy it is a publicized case of someone getting charged with using one in a crime. Frankly, even just starting silly threads on CGN about shooting deer with antique handguns, and carrying concealed in the woods, could end up coming back to haunt us in a few years. I'm sure there are people on CGN that would get the vapours if they knew that people were toting unregistered handguns all over the place. Keep a low profile!
 
deer hunting

In the last 5 years I have knocked down 5 deer , 1 moose and 1 elk.I have only fired 8 shots while doing this 1 was an unnecessary 2nd shot (the critter didnt know he was dead), 1 of them was a clear miss and one was ensuring my rifle was still OK after a fall.I have hunted with wolves and bears and have never had the need for a hand gun while doing this.You have a rifle in your hand why try and dig out a hand gun and hope it works when you have a perfectly good rifle in your hands.I have come across game checks and wardens and do we realy want to take the risk of packing something that could end our hunting and shooting oportunities.Not necessary if you ask me.
Now hiking up the mountains in the summer without a rifle is a different thing and maybe this should be the question posted.Graham
 
You are right, BS time is over and its time to do some serious reading.
I kicked back with a cold one tonight and spent some quality time with the regs of a province I haven't lived in over a decade. Fun!

Lets start with:
ONTARIO REGULATION 665/98
HUNTING
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980665_e.htm


69. The classes of firearm set out in column 2 of the Table to this section, each consisting of the firearms set out in column 3, are prescribed for the purpose of this Regulation and Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife) as the classes of firearm that a person may use or carry to hunt deer or moose.

TABLE


Column 1 Species
Column 2 Class of Firearm
Column 3 Content of Class

Moose, Deer
Class 1
Bow

Moose, Deer
Class 2
Bow, or flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

Deer
Class 3
Bow, shotgun, or flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

Moose, Deer
Class 4
Rifle, shotgun, or flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

Deer
Class 5
Flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

Deer
Class 6
Shotgun, or flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

Moose, Deer
Class 7
Bow, rifle, shotgun, or flint-lock or percussion cap muzzle-loading gun

O. Reg. 581/99, s. 4; O. Reg. 320/06, s. 2.

AND

70. A person who hunts deer or moose shall not use or carry a firearm unless the firearm is of a class specified for use during the open season applicable to the species, person and area in Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife). O. Reg. 581/99, s. 4.

so then you check out the Open Seasons Regs and find:

ONTARIO REGULATION 670/98
OPEN SEASONS — WILDLIFE
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980670_e.htm


1. The areas, open seasons, times, classes of firearm, daily bag limits and possession limits, where applicable, set out in each Table to this Regulation are prescribed for the species to which the Table applies. O. Reg. 580/99, s. 1.

and

6. A reference in this Regulation to a class of firearm is a reference to the class of firearm prescribed by section 69 of Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting). O. Reg. 580/99, s. 2; O. Reg. 266/05, s. 1.

So it turns out they do set out exactly which classes of firearms are legal for hunting each game species and handguns (restricted or antique) do not make the list.

In case you plan on argueing that antiques aren't actually firearms so all the above doesn't apply:

ONTARIO REGULATION 665/98
HUNTING
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980665_e.htm

83. A person shall not hunt big game with a weapon other than a firearm. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 83.

OK, WHERE IS MY CASE OF BEER??????? :D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Southlander said:
By your logic then why do you obey hunting seasons? They are not in the act but they are punishable offences.



Can you show me where "restricted & prohibited firearms" appear in the Ontario Fish & Wildlife Conservation Act?

They don't want people to hunt with handguns, I think that is pretty clear. Why would you want to carry an antique on you during hunting season? So they can change the laws to include ATT's? All you are going to do is cause trouble for people who are obeying the laws and enjoying their antiques. I think hunting with a handgun would be great and I am sure you will find many hunters would like to try it. Disobeying the regulations, testing the waters, and pushing the limits will not result in handgun hunting it will result in losing the antique exemption. So please use better judgement when you use antiques. Or someone will legislate better judgement.

Putting down your deer.....:rolleyes:
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The whole antique thing is on very shaky ground, this being Canada and all. Even some fellow gun clubbers, when I told them about antiques, went: ":eek: You mean they're HANDGUNS, and don't have to be registered??? THAT'S NOT RIGHT!!" I've got that response three times, from ATT carrying gun owners. I suspect that many licensed, ATT carrying restricted firearm owners are mad, because some people don't need ATT's. They think "I have MINE, why shouldn't HE have one! :mad:" I no longer mention the subject, except to close friends. All it will take is for some "concerned citizen" to start firing off letters to their NDP MP, and we could end up back where we were before. Remember? As soon as you loaded your antique, it ceased to be an antique? We have a good thing here, and I'm worried that Josey Wales wannabes are going to ruin it for everyone else. Use common sense!
 
OK, WHERE IS MY CASE OF BEER???????
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Ok jaydog, I'll conceed that everything you posted is correct. While still not clear I'll buy you a case anytime you're in central ontario to get it....

The part that stumped the NFA lawyer who I asked was what defines a rifle or shotgun per the regulations? There are a number of pistol grip type firearms out there which make the line petween rifle, shotgun and handgun blurred. When a buttstock is removed from a firearm is it a handgun? What about an antique broomhandle with a buttstock? Does it become a short barreled rifle? Or an SKS with a folding stock... If folded is it a handgun? The lawyer was quick to point out the firearms would be judged upon barrel length. I pointed out that an IGA backpacker has a 12" barrel and is widely accepted as a hunting firearm.

I would imagine that most people on here are beginning to realize that firearms laws in this country are rather vague and mostly open for interpretation. Judges have repeatedly critisized the firearms act for conflicting statements and I'm not entirely convinced that anything but a judges ruling and subsequent caselaw would actually set the record straight on this subject. Of course

I'm going to refrain from posting anymore on this subject. While I don't condone doing anything illegal, when dealing with controversial subjects it is likely best to keep quiet. IF (and I do mean IF it is legal to the best of his understanding and research) Starpuss chooses to put down a wounded animal with his revolver, I wouldn't go posting it for all to see. Also keep in mind it is illegal to cause undue suffering to an animal so shooting it with your revolver and not killing it, while your muzzleloader is handy and more capable may set you up for charges.

When I first posted on this thread I voted for maybe, but am leaning towards no as far as the poll goes....

Jaydog, PM me for beer.... LOL :cheers:
 
I carry enough equipment when hunting without adding an antique handgun & ammo to the list...Plus you'd get busted if caught.The CO's would likely adopt a ,"let the Judge sort it out" position while your $3000.00 sixgun is being mistreated by some Clerk.
 
handgun

as much as i would love to be able to carry a handgun well hunting big game .unless i had the paper work saying so i would not risk my hunting rights DUTCH
 
As much as a small part of me can sympathise with those that have concerns that carrying an antique handgun could cause problems for other antique owners, a bigger part of me says "Then what's the point?" If we are only going to use antique handguns as if they were restricted then they might as well be restricted.

Now I am in no way supporting the idea to use an antique handgun to finish off an animal or in any other part of the hunting process when specifically forbidden. However, if there is no legal reason not to carry it then I say "carry it if you want". It will be up to the individual to analyse the particular circumstances to determine what kind of effort will be needed to prove that he is within the law.
 
tactical870 said:
Ok jaydog, I'll conceed that everything you posted is correct. While still not clear I'll buy you a case anytime you're in central ontario to get it....

The part that stumped the NFA lawyer who I asked was what defines a rifle or shotgun per the regulations? There are a number of pistol grip type firearms out there which make the line petween rifle, shotgun and handgun blurred. When a buttstock is removed from a firearm is it a handgun? What about an antique broomhandle with a buttstock? Does it become a short barreled rifle? Or an SKS with a folding stock... If folded is it a handgun? The lawyer was quick to point out the firearms would be judged upon barrel length. I pointed out that an IGA backpacker has a 12" barrel and is widely accepted as a hunting firearm.

I would imagine that most people on here are beginning to realize that firearms laws in this country are rather vague and mostly open for interpretation. Judges have repeatedly critisized the firearms act for conflicting statements and I'm not entirely convinced that anything but a judges ruling and subsequent caselaw would actually set the record straight on this subject. Of course

I'm going to refrain from posting anymore on this subject. While I don't condone doing anything illegal, when dealing with controversial subjects it is likely best to keep quiet. IF (and I do mean IF it is legal to the best of his understanding and research) Starpuss chooses to put down a wounded animal with his revolver, I wouldn't go posting it for all to see. Also keep in mind it is illegal to cause undue suffering to an animal so shooting it with your revolver and not killing it, while your muzzleloader is handy and more capable may set you up for charges.

When I first posted on this thread I voted for maybe, but am leaning towards no as far as the poll goes....

Jaydog, PM me for beer.... LOL :cheers:
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A generic definition of a handgun is a a firearm designed to be operated with one hand. So a pistol grip shotgun still needs two hands to operate the pump, and isn't a handgun. It's not a perfect definition, and there are always going to be grey areas - handguns can be fired with two hands, and semi-auto shotguns and rifles can be operated with one hand - but they weren't DESIGNED with that in mind.
 
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