Question about C7

On my QL2, I remember an instructor showing us several different variations in firing positions including wrapping the sling around the arm to better stabilize it's position. I don't see it demonstrated much anymore. Not to mention the more frequent use/issue of patrol slings eliminates the point of doing that. Also, like mention above, rifle gunfighter drills.

With the standard style sling, I would wrap it around my arm for range shoots but only in standing or kneeling. When in prone, I usually prefer to place my elbow closer to the mag housing, hand at mid-point, index finger pointed down barrel.
 
C7 sling use

well, like anything, it takes training and more training...because the wrong sling tension, WILL shift the MPI....And, like with all the other elements of marksmanship, uniformity is the key, each shot must be fired the same. And for the nay sayers...My sniper partner, Kenny Ferguson(LT) has seven, (7) Queens medals and a heap of International awards....and he shoots with a sling..so, the proofs in the pudding..it does work, but you must be commited to train hard and work out all the bugs. And he won his Queens when all major units sent teams to Ottawa. Connaught would field 300 plus competitors, Military and civilian..now those were shoots...
 
My .02c,,

1. The Sling at CFSAC.
  • Yep, it's legal, and always has been. Here is the link to the rule booK (see page 5-2)
    http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/CAC/documents/CFSAC/2009 CFSAC RAM.pdf
  • Few, if any use it at all. The sling is in the pack. Reason is as mentioned by others here,, it plays with your poi, consistency is tough.
  • Very few will use it for the standing or kneeling.
  • As for KC telling the Marine: I can only conjecture that the sling he was using was not close to "issue", but was a "target" type sling: which is not allowed. I seem to recall the last bunch of marines out there had RIS forends with free-floating barrels. If I had that setup, I would be exploring a sling as well.

2. The Gunfighter drill and techniques are fine for close in, but when shooting past 100 in a semi-deliberate mode, you need support: either the ground prone, in the trench, behind bags, use of cover, etc. Being square and the centre chest hold isn't for that type of shooting.

3. Farmboy was generous enough to give me one of the Blue Force Gear's Vickers Combat Applications Slings to use for the combat pistol matches. It was the cat's ass. Highly recommended. Most were using the black issued sling para-corded every which way to make something half useful. You need to have a system to transition to your pistol, and still move and shoot. Anyway, thanks to Farmboy for the sling. If anyone is going to CFSAC this year, better get one and start training with it. The BFG medic sling looks even more practical, may try that one this year.

Back to sleep now,,
Shelldrake,
 
Slinging up is all well and good for TR usage - its ####ing retarded in combat.


We live and die in a 360 degree world -- sling up and try to engage a target to your flanks or rear.

Have a stoppage while slung up?
Mag change?
Full plates ?

Cold hard face of reality is not blowing at Connaught.

You know that very well yourself Rico - and I've never seen you shoot with a sling other than proned out on the grassy knoll
 
Just to clarify the sling thing at CFSAC,, the rules are different for the Service Rifle and the Combat Pistol Matches. For Service Rifle, it must be issued or very similar. For Combat Pistol, the rifle sling may be of any pattern or design.
Eveyone uses a sling of some kind for the Soldiers Cup (must be issue or equivalent), as you need both hands free to get over some of the obstacles in a timely manner.
 
Slinging up is all well and good for TR usage - its f**king retarded in combat.
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To clarify slinging up - wraping your arm through the sling - cuffs etc. ;)

Eveyone uses a sling of some kind for the Soldiers Cup (must be issue or equivalent), as you need both hands free to get over some of the obstacles in a timely manner.
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What is the definition of issue? Does it mean standard issue to the entire CF? As there have been a number of units who have procured the VCAS sling for issuing to their guys.

I remember there was some debate about that with regards to the boarding parties "issue" holster.
 
Farmboy said:
What is the definition of issue? Does it mean standard issue to the entire CF? As there have been a number of units who have procured the VCAS sling for issuing to their guys.

I remember there was some debate about that with regards to the boarding parties "issue" holster.
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Welcome to CFSAC. That's the problem, there is no definition of "issue", so if anyone protests or makes an observation to the officials, or if an official is in a #####y mood, then the debate and posturing begins. Generally, when it comes to slings there has never been much of a problem in service rifle because nobody (for the most part) uses one to any advantage.
Combat pistol rules are much more open, so anything goes (maybe that rule should be applied to the rest of the matches).
Soldiers Cup hasn't had any issues with slings yet, because only a handful of the shooters use anything except the issue sling, and once the shooting starts, you haven't much time to "sling up". As more shooters begin using the non-issue slings, then that debate may happen.

I don't recall any problems with the Navy holsters, there was some debate over the grips on the Sig and the fact that the blackhawk mag pouches did not have sufficient retention (they were open top). The rule states "The pouch must retain the magazines with a flap secured via a snap, buckle or Velcro", which the blackhawk pouches do not have In the end the mag pouches were allowed as that is what the navy issues, the grips were disallowed, but that could change in the future. I didn't think it gave any unfair advantage, but I didn't have a vote.

Using a VCAS for Service Rifle may be contentious and the competition director would have to rule on that if an official or competitor objected to it. It should be good to go for the other events though.

The rules should be harmonized to make them all the same, and be a bit more open as to what is allowed. My opinion only though,,
 
Greeting "Effendi" Kevin

Cold hard face of reality is not blowing at Connaught.

You know that very well yourself Rico - and I've never seen you shoot with a sling other than proned out on the grassy knoll[/QUOTE]

Agreed Kevin..slings in combat will get you killed..and you are correct, I have never mastered its use in competition....it's use introduced to many variables for me to waste time on to try and figure out, especially with limited training time...However, for competition, those that have mastered it, do it well, as evidenced by Kenny and a couple others..Having said that, I wouldnt want to be downrange with him with or without a sling. Hope all is well in your AO...I understand the orange juice and sunshine have treated you well..
 
For all my limited experience is worth, When we asked about it during our last range day, the sgt smacked the asker on the back of the head and asked him if he wanted to die. Apparently it slows you down too much, and the extra little bit of stability it gives you is offset by the chaos and adrenalin, so all it ends up doing is slowing you down.
 
New2shoot said:
For all my limited experience is worth, When we asked about it during our last range day, the sgt smacked the asker on the back of the head and asked him if he wanted to die. Apparently it slows you down too much, and the extra little bit of stability it gives you is offset by the chaos and adrenalin, so all it ends up doing is slowing you down.
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It isn't quite that simple. Depends on what you are doing. Try climbing up and down ladders all day without a sling, or doing work that requires two hands like digging in, or rappelling? Where's your rifle when you are doing that? Where's your head slapping sergeant's rifle when he needs to drag your wounded ass across a field?,, pretty tough to do with one arm.

The sling is a tool. Use it for what it can help you with, don't use it when it makes sense not to.

Condescending sergeants who smack heads generally are just advertising there lack of credibility.
 
Shelldrake said:
It isn't quite that simple. Depends on what you are doing. Try climbing up and down ladders all day without a sling, or doing work that requires two hands like digging in, or rappelling? Where's your rifle when you are doing that? Where's your head slapping sergeant's rifle when he needs to drag your wounded ass across a field?,, pretty tough to do with one arm.

The sling is a tool. Use it for what it can help you with, don't use it when it makes sense not to.

Condescending sergeants who smack heads generally are just advertising there lack of credibility.
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Outstanding reply..says it all..
 
long bow said:
Probably because the CQ's are to idle to unwrap them and but them on the rifles. They look much prettier in the wrap in a drawer somewhere..
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:D that I can beleive.

was in clothing stores yesterday, poor sup tech was so confused, my docs are such huge mess that they are ready just to reissue me everything again :D

but I just don't have room for more kit :rolleyes:
 
Shelldrake said:
It isn't quite that simple. Depends on what you are doing. Try climbing up and down ladders all day without a sling, or doing work that requires two hands like digging in, or rappelling? Where's your rifle when you are doing that? Where's your head slapping sergeant's rifle when he needs to drag your wounded ass across a field?,, pretty tough to do with one arm.

The sling is a tool. Use it for what it can help you with, don't use it when it makes sense not to.

Condescending sergeants who smack heads generally are just advertising there lack of credibility.
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Maybe I didn't clarify we were qualifying on the range the rest of the time the sling was used for what it was intended to be used for.
 
long bow said:
My sniper partner, Kenny Ferguson(LT) has seven, (7) Queens medals and a heap of International awards....and he shoots with a sling..so, the proofs in the pudding..it does work
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Don't recall seeing Mr. Ferguson using a sling at NSCC the past couple of years, he may have, just don't recall. Ken also uses a free float tube so any sling use would not put side pressure on the barrel.
 
Leg said:
Don't recall seeing Mr. Ferguson using a sling at NSCC the past couple of years, he may have, just don't recall. Ken also uses a free float tube so any sling use would not put side pressure on the barrel.
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He uses a sling..no question, not an issue...and of late, he uses a standard grade Armalite AR 15 Hbar, and it is NOT freefloated..for these last couple years..but he has in the past used a DPMS Sweet 16 and it is free floated.
 
woodchopper said:
:D that I can beleive.

was in clothing stores yesterday, poor sup tech was so confused, my docs are such huge mess that they are ready just to reissue me everything again :D

but I just don't have room for more kit :rolleyes:
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I've been told the Statute of Limitations to recover unaccounted for clothing and equipment after release is $200. ;)
 
long bow said:
He uses a sling..no question, not an issue...and of late, he uses a standard grade Armalite AR 15 Hbar, and it is NOT freefloated..for these last couple years..but he has in the past used a DPMS Sweet 16 and it is free floated.
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As said a few times, the sling is an excellent aid on a flat range,however, we tend to increasingly train the way we fight,you will not be wrapping yourself in a sling while conducting fire and movement in Afghanistan (or anywhere else for that matter),it makes no sense to train shooting with a sling as a shooting aid when it is not practical and can be dangerous in a war zone.
All this discussion about using it on a flat range under perfect conditions is pretty much useless unless you are at CFSAC or other service rifle competition,both of which have no bearing on combat.
 
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