16 ga still common enough?

No argument and our paths with slight variations here and there are quite similar. I'd wager a dram of the good stuff that our respective bookshelves are more alike than different. A quick glance at mine shows Ash, Boothroyd and Brister to the left, Wieland, Yardley and Zutz to the right with many stops in between including a well-used copy of The Gun and It's Development by Greener.

As you noted what we view as merely sharing our passion can be regarded by others as snobbery and elitism. The challenge we face is resisting the temptation to promote what we like and to provide practical information to someone who might not be as far along the path. Because we have the passion we are more inclined to not consider as obstacles finding 16 gauge components, loading 28 gauge game loads or special ordering 2-1/2" shells. These are just the price of admission to new levels of the game for us.

The passion can be a cruel mistress. Rarely have I seen it in a man with pockets deep enough to indulge it fully. What I have seen far more often are loathsome men of money who pay less attention to the details of ordering a Purdey than picking the toppings on their hamburger at Harvey's.

For those of us with fewer means the passion needs to be held in check. While in an antiquarian bookstore in London last month I was almost seduced by a first edition of The Gun and Its Development in fine condition. But at £300 I reminded myself that I had better uses for the money such as a new 28 gauge loader. :)

You're right on all counts, of course. Life is a journey, not a destination. We must constantly remind ourselves that, no matter who we think we are, we were all born naked and we can't take anything with us when we leave.

Especially with fine guns and even more so with those of historic import, I consider myself their temporary custodian - as much a responsibility as a priviledge.

Rarely have I seen it in a man with pockets deep enough to indulge it fully.

Even those with the deepest pockets of all are constrained by opportunity. Myself, I am not a wealthy man. But, I make up for my lack of means with persistance and tenacity. The time I spend monitoring firearms markets of all kinds results in glorious finds, once in a while. Reading, researching, and remaining open to new ideas all contribute to a better understanding. Although, nothing beats first-hand experience. It's amazing what you can learn by buying a POS.

The most difficult aspect of all, IMO, is the giving and receiving of advice (over the internet, especially). Generally, far too little is known about the person asking the question. Even with perfect information (which only exists in a perfect world), we strike a fine balance between providing too little or too much detail. At the one extreme, we presume to know all the inquisitor's criteria. At the other extreme, we risk overwhelming the question with an excess of information that may confuse as much as enlighten.

My personal philosophy is to answer as directly as possible the original question. Typically an elusive goal, as there would be no question if sufficient was known to pose it clearly. However, even with the simplest of questions, I like to open the door a crack to the potential breadth of the subject. This comes, I suppose, from the realisation of how limited our own experience would have been had we accepted as fact that commercial 2 1/2" shells are unattainable, for example.

I stay away from the "What's the best tactical pump shottie" threads for this very reason. I prefer to discuss the merits of 16 gauge guns with those who are at least curious.
 
I have a 16 ga cooey, win mod 12 and a ithaca 37. They do just fine. If you can find a cheap 16 then go for it,but if it is the same price as a 12 or 20 then go with the more common.
 
I have a 16 ga cooey, win mod 12 and a ithaca 37. They do just fine. If you can find a cheap 16 then go for it,but if it is the same price as a 12 or 20 then go with the more common.

Why is it all about "cheap" on this board? What happened to quality and pride of ownership?
 
Why is it all about "cheap" on this board? What happened to quality and pride of ownership?

Did you read the story about Toyota in the Edmonton Journal? (and the rest of the rags, I'm sure)

ht tp://www.edmontonjournal.com/story_print.html?id=2619999&sponsor=

Cost obsession backfired on Toyota, officials say

Katsuaki Watanabe, Toyota Motor Corp.'s former president, did something at his first meeting with U.S. investors out of character for a leader of Japan's biggest carmaker: He boasted of what he'd accomplished.

On the job as Toyota's chief executive for less than three months, Watanabe told New York's financial community at the Sept. 12, 2005, gathering that a cost-reduction program he designed had wrung out more than $10 billion of savings over six years. Called "Construction of Cost Competitiveness in the 21st Century," the initiative was only a start, he said.

An obsession with cost reductions and rapid growth help explain how a company long revered for quality is under fire from U.S. legislators and lawyers amid recalls of 8.5 million autos worldwide.

"Under CCC21 activities, which I led, Toyota realized cost reductions of more than 200 billion yen ($2.36 billion Cdn) a year on a consolidated basis," Watanabe said.

Next was an "aggressive version of CCC21" Watanabe called "Value Innovation" that promised more savings by making the entire development process cheaper and further trimming parts and production costs.

"The root cause of their problems is that the company was hijacked, some years ago, by anti-(Toyoda) family, financially oriented pirates," said Jim Press, Toyota's former U.S. chief and the only American to hold a seat on the company's board.

Those executives, whom Press didn't identify, "didn't have the character necessary to maintain a customer-first focus," he said. Press left the company in 2007 after an unwanted job transfer.

All automakers are focused on reducing cost, said Jim Wiseman, Toyota's vice-president for North American corporate communications.

"It's not true that by reducing cost you automatically reduce quality," Wiseman said. "Every automaker has to stay competitive relative to price."

Watanabe, now a vice-chairman for Toyota, declined to be interviewed for this story.

The world's largest carmaker has lost $34.2 billion Cdn in market value since a Jan. 21 recall to fix gas pedals that can stick. That followed a recall for accelerator pedals that can be trapped by floor mats and cause unwanted acceleration.

It's also adding braking software on millions of recalled and future vehicles to help stop unintended speed-ups and adjusting brake programming on the Prius and other hybrids.

Watanabe, trained as an economist, not as an engineer, also said at the New York conference that the Toyota City, Japan-based company was able to slash time to bring models into production once a design was final to about 12 months, compared with an industry average of between 24 and 36 months.

Akio Toyoda, who succeeded Watanabe in June 2009, acknowledged this week that such changes may have contributed to product defects.

Under Watanabe, Toyota had three consecutive record years, but collapsing sales brought on by a global financial crisis saw a $5.16-billion-Cdn net loss last year, the worst in company history.

At a 2006 investor conference in London, Watanabe and former executive vice-president Kazuo Okamoto discussed plans to "exceed the cost-reduction results achieved in CCC21" by eliminating vehicle parts and pushing suppliers to adopt lighter, cheaper materials.

While the programs brought development advances, they may have inadvertently triggered quality glitches, said current and former company officials who asked not to be named because the information isn't public.

For models such as the Camry, that led to an expectation that each new part on the top-selling U.S. passenger car be at least 10 per cent cheaper and 10 per cent lighter than the one it replaced, said an official at a supplier who asked not to be named because the person still works with Toyota.

Problems with Camry were evident during production of a redesigned model in February 2006, said a supplier executive who worked directly on the program and whose current employer still does business with Toyota.

While Akio Toyoda vowed to revamp Toyota's tarnished image and repair internal processes warped by mistakes of the past decade, actions of previous leaders echo a comment by his great-uncle Eiji Toyoda.

"Water can be wrung even from a dry towel if you put your mind to it," said Eiji Toyoda, a former company president, describing how Toyota slashed costs after the 1973 Oil Crisis.

BOLD emphasis in the article is mine. Nice work Watanabe!!:p

Focus on cost over value has cost our societies and us as individuals incalculable trillions. We're swimming against a tsunami but, hopefully, people like you and I will turn the tide eventually.

Interesting book on the subject: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
 
16 ga

My most used shotguns are 16 ga. Ammo is not that hard to get ,I usually order by the case from my local gunstore here [ Island Outfitters in Victoria]
and they supply without a hitch.
Watch the EE ,there are some great buys on 16 ga guns. Cheers.
 
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