Webley Mk I question

[johnnylo]

I have recently aquired a Webly Mk I that has been modified to fire 45 ACP. I do not plan on firing factory 45 but plan to reload my own to 455 specs. I was wondering if the Webley series are fairly similar and if a 455 cylinder from another pistol could be swapped in if planning to fire 455.

this being my second antique pistol I believe I am becoming addicted....

 

[david doyle]

A cylinder from a mkI or MKII could be put in it. really though what is the point. All the case does is seal the chamber and hold the bullet, powder and primer in the correct sequence. A 45 acp case does this just as well as a 455 case.

 

[cantom]

I have recently aquired a Webly Mk I that has been modified to fire 45 ACP. I do not plan on firing factory 45 but plan to reload my own to 455 specs. I was wondering if the Webley series are fairly similar and if a 455 cylinder from another pistol could be swapped in if planning to fire 455.

this being my second antique pistol I believe I am becoming addicted....

Cylinders or any parts at all for Mk I or Mk II Webleys are so rare as to be basically impossible to find. As was said by David just load .45acp cases to .455 levels, like 3.3 grains of Unique or similar and be happy.

 

[jethunter]

Basically you would need to buy another gun, and rob the cylinder from it. Loading .45acp brass to .455 specs is the better way to go IMO.

Slightly off-topic - there is a gunsmith on Gunbroker,com offering to convert shaved webley cylinders back to the original .455 configuration for US$150.00. I have no idea about the viability, but it is a fascinating concept.

 

[david doyle]

That conversion would basically just involve soldering/epoxying a moon clip or similair spacer to the cylinder face. Pretty straight forward I think.

With regards to parts availabity, yes they are scarce but over the past few years a number of mkI-II cylinders and parts have shown up on GB and before that on ebay. Parts that have been cut loose from South Africa as a result of thier new gun laws. BTW unfortunately cylinders are illegal to export from SA.
If you are patient a cylinder will show up. Just make sure you find it before me LOL

Anybody tried 'gunners' .308 derived .45 acp brass in a webley? If his super brass mitigates pressures in a 1911 it shoud do so in a webley?? Not saying push the pressures just saying that low pressures might be even lower with his brass.

 

[jethunter]

That conversion would basically just involve soldering/epoxying a moon clip or similair spacer to the cylinder face. Pretty straight forward I think.

Theoretically straight forward if you don't need an ejector. Loading a moon clip that's glued tothe cylinder face would be challenging to say the least. Milling a spacer ring that would fit the ejector assy and line up precisely on all 6 chambers is not a simple task.

 

[david doyle]

point being the conversion back to a rimmed cartridge is not impossible or even challanging. Opening up the holes on a clip to accept a full cartridge width would be pretty straight forward. If you don't want to work with metal cut one out of plastic.

 

[jethunter]

point being the conversion back to a rimmed cartridge is not impossible or even challanging. Opening up the holes on a clip to accept a full cartridge width would be pretty straight forward. If you don't want to work with metal cut one out of plastic.

OK, only thing I'm not understanding is how would the ejectors function if there's a simple spacer ring glued to the cylinder face.

 

[dingus]

just buy 45 auto rim cases end of problem.
then you got a gun that can use 45 Acp with moon clips (supper fast to load and unload) just watch your Powder charge but 4.5 to 5 grs of unique seems what most are doing .

But there Tough guns and 45 Auto rim cases you load the gun without moon clips.
I know theres aLOT of MKIs and MKIIs out there cut to 45 AcP and they use 45 auto rim cases rather than glueing on stuff so the gun can now only use the hardto find 455 cases.
By the way i have a set of lee dies and 75 x 455 Colt domion cases for sale eh if you do convert back to 455

 

[jethunter]

The new hornady MkII brass is easy to get in Canada and not expensive. Don't know how long Hornady is gonna keep making it though. I stocked up, 500 should last a while.

 

[Killer Kanuck]

Don't think trimmed 45 Colt would work - the rim on the 45AR is really thick.

 

[jethunter]

Don't think trimmed 45 Colt would work - the rim on the 45AR is really thick.

You're right of course, there's a big gap to make up. But would it work if you glued a plastic ring to it?

 

[david doyle]

how much of a 45acps rim/extractor groove does a moon clip encompass? Not all of it right? If you encompassed the whole circumfrence then guess what the extractor wont work (as you pointed out)
If you support the rim of a 455 cartridge to the same degree as the 45 acp (with plastic, shim stock or bean can lids) then there is no problem with the extractor and the revolver will headspace properly and experience ignition reliabilty on par with the original chambering.
Jet hunter depsite your resistance to the idea, a simple dremel and hard plastic job or reamer and clip would allow the use of 455 cartridges in an ACP converted revolver. Is it a worthwhile enterprise? No, unless of course you happen to only have access to 455 brass. My advice is always be happy you have a converted gun and enjoy the access to free brass and the fun of 'tactical reloads' with a 130 year old martial arm.

Something else that you maybe overlooking as you merrily load those high pressure big bullet jump mkII cases is the ability of the outlined method to allow setting up the gun to fire mkI length (or longer) 45 schofield or TRIMMED colt brass. If you want the best performance and the least pressure you need case capacity. trimming brass to length is alot nicer then thinning rims and then cutting to length.

Anyway if someone wants to set up a gun to shoot well there are lots of options. If someone absolutely needs to convert back to 455 offer me a Mint condition 45 acp cylinder barrel assembly and a bucket of cash and they can.

 

[jethunter]

DD - Converting a shaved cylinder back to .455 is not practical when moon clips or .45AR brass is available. It was mentioned only for general interest to the gentleman who started the thread. I am not considering nor soliciting advice on converting a cylinder back to.455, but thank you anyway.

 

[david doyle]

jet hunter with respect less band width is required if you read a post before responding to it. The effort of reading would have rewarded you with not having to repeat exactly what I said. I am aware you just mentioned the conversion and I am also aware that you did not know what was involved. Hence to be helpful I outlined the simple procedure. I'll try and remember in the future to not to bother.

Is it a worthwhile enterprise? No, unless of course you happen to only have access to 455 brass. My advice is always be happy you have a converted gun and enjoy the access to free brass

Converting a shaved cylinder back to .455 is not practical when moon clips or .45AR brass is available.

 

[tactical870]

I'd be all over a cut 455 webley. My MkII is uncut 455 but the ability to get near free brass by the bucket load and reload ultra fast with a moon clip is a real temptation. Why screw with it?

 

[dingus]

If i had a 45 ACP cut gun id be happy with it as is useing 45 ACP brass.

David is right tho its not a big deal to soder on a disc or even glue one on with Jb weld and go back to shooting 455 cases.
As the 455 brass is all solid head now you only need to keep it spaced back so the hammers fireing pin can make good contact.

The Extractor can be raised up with small pieces of metal at its tips sodered on one at a time is all it takes to Extract the cases.

 

[apu]

I'd be all over a cut 455 webley. My MkII is uncut 455 but the ability to get near free brass by the bucket load and reload ultra fast with a moon clip is a real temptation. Why screw with it?

You can load 455 just as fast, just need a speed loader.

 

[dingus]

You can load 455 just as fast, just need a speed loader.

What speed loader did you alter to do that ?

I found the 45 colt ones they wouldnt work just currious where you found that.
I get alot of guys asking me about 455 Speedloaders but the only ones i know about are the Antique ones they used in the early 1900s they run $200 each if you can find one.

 

[jethunter]

jet hunter with respect less band width is required if you read a post before responding to it. The effort of reading would have rewarded you with not having to repeat exactly what I said. I am aware you just mentioned the conversion and I am also aware that you did not know what was involved. Hence to be helpful I outlined the simple procedure. I'll try and remember in the future to not to bother.

Wow. You might consider following your own advice in regards to reading before answering. In my first post on this thread (to which you initially responded) I said that the best way to shoot the revolver in question was to use .45 auto rim or .45ACP/moon clips loaded to .455 levels, so please explain who was repeating who? I then finished that first post by referring to a gunbroker auction for refurbishing a shaved cylinder to original specs because i found it interesting that people would pay for that.

I'm sorry - I see no technical revelation involved in your suggestion to glue or solder a moon clip to a webley cylinder. If you genuinely thought that there was technical expertise in your advice then I do thank you for the effort.

Whatever it is that has irritated you was not intended on my part, but I do not enjoy being the subject of your sarcasm and aggression. So - merrily and with respect I do urge you to please follow your own excellent advice "to not to bother", and i will do the same for you.