St-Étienne Bayonet

PerversPépère

PerversPépère

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St-Étienne Bayonet

Hello!
A young guy I hired for some electrical wiring jobs told me of an old bayonet he found while working in a home he just bought. From the description, it looked like he had something interesting so I asked him to allow me to take pictures
It looks like a Berthier or Lebel bayonet but is not of the crucifom "knitting needle" shape; instead, it looks like a "T" and is quite long, resembling a sword.
It is French as attests the Saint-Étienne 1880 marking on the blade.

Bayo1.jpg

Bayo2.jpg

Bayo3.jpg

Bayo4.jpg

Bayo5.jpg

Bayo6.jpg


Any historical comments on this one?.
I told the young guy not to clean, polish or steel wool anything on it.
PP. :)
 
Last edited:
M1874 Gras bayonet - Overall length - 25.312" (642.9mm)
Muzzle ring dia - .694" (17.6mm)
or the M1878 and M1882 Kropatschek
Overall length - 25.23" (641.3mm)
Muzzle ring dia - .715" (18.1mm)

Measure it and let us know -inquiring minds want to know.
 
Erratum

Erratum: date on the blade says "Mfre. d'Armes de Saint-Étienne mdl. 1880"
I phoned the young guy and he asked me how much this was usually worth ?
There are some punches on the quillion. I was wondering what the initials "FG" near the serial number meant?
PP.
 
PerversPépère said:
Erratum: date on the blade says "Mfre. d'Armes de Saint-Étienne mdl. 1880"
I phoned the young guy and he asked me how much this was usually worth ?
There are some punches on the quillion. I was wondering what the initials "FG" near the serial number meant?
PP.
Click to expand...

I have two, in better shape, with matching serial numbered scabbards, that i got off ebay a few years ago for about $65 or so
 
$60-$70 in that shape, without the scabbard. With matching scabbard in similar condition, $100-$110. Of course, the better the condition, the higher the price.

I really don't know why these bayos aren't bringing better prices. Probably because there are so few rifles around that they will fit on. They are one of the prettier bayonets out there and even in 50% condition, such as that one, they certainly draw the eye.
 
I found two just like that but with the stright back handle the blades were marked chritopher somthing in a signature style writing down the spine, im thinking they are Portuguese. what other countrys used the french style bayonet?
 
Bonjour Pepere, Let me add a bit more mystery to your bayonet.

I have the identical one only mine is inscribed with "Usine de Steyr 1879" i.e.Steyr Factory 1879.

The Steyr in question must be the town in Austria that has been manufacturing arms since the 14th century and guns since the 17th century. Even today it is home to the Steyr Aug and the Steyr Mannlicher.

The next question that comes up is why an Austrian bayonet has French writing on it? If these old milsurps could talk I am sure the story would be an interesting one.

It came into my hands in Montreal where my father gave it to me after an old shoemaker he knew gave it to him.

I would post a picture but my kids have misplaced the camera.

Let's hope more information come out. Good luck with this puzzle.
 
"I found two just like that but with the stright back handle the blades were marked chritopher somthing in a signature style writing down the spine, im thinking they are Portuguese."

That is the bayonet for the rare French Army 1884 and Marine 1878 Kropatschek rifles, not the same as the very common Portugese Kropatschek Model 1886 rifle. the bayonets were probably made by the Chatellerault Arsenal.


"I have the identical one only mine is inscribed with "Usine de Steyr 1879" i.e.Steyr Factory 1879."

- Steyr made the Gras 1874 bayonet under contract for both the French and the Greek Governments.
 
.223Savage said:
Bonjour Pepere, Let me add a bit more mystery to your bayonet.

I have the identical one only mine is inscribed with "Usine de Steyr 1879" i.e.Steyr Factory 1879.

The Steyr in question must be the town in Austria that has been manufacturing arms since the 14th century and guns since the 17th century. Even today it is home to the Steyr Aug and the Steyr Mannlicher.

The next question that comes up is why an Austrian bayonet has French writing on it? If these old milsurps could talk I am sure the story would be an interesting one.

It came into my hands in Montreal where my father gave it to me after an old shoemaker he knew gave it to him.

I would post a picture but my kids have misplaced the camera.

Let's hope more information come out. Good luck with this puzzle.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a furniture contract between two wars?
In the case of your bayonet, there were many "Zouaves pontificaux" armed with Lebels and Berthiers in Montréal. Some were attached to the Oratoire Saint-Joseph. Maybe it comes from one of them.
One of the most beautiful Berthier I saw was a mint Delaunay Belleville, brought at Dante's by an old man who was one of these zouaves.
He just handed it over the counter to the owner of the store telling him to have good care of it then left.
PP.
 
Steyr never manufactured bayonets for the Berthier or Lebel rifles, as I said above only for the Gras Model 1874 under contract for the French and Greek governments.
 
JP said:
Steyr never manufactured bayonets for the Berthier or Lebel rifles, as I said above only for the Gras Model 1874 under contract for the French and Greek governments.
Click to expand...

Ah, so it was as I supposed, a contract in a period between two armed conflicts. The Lebel and Berthier rifles were issued in or around 1914 and later.
PP.
 
Austrians were not against making a dollar, they made weapons for both French and Germans before WW1.
 
The Steyr in question must be the town in Austria that has been manufacturing arms since the 14th century and guns since the 17th century. Even today it is home to the Steyr Aug and the Steyr Mannlicher.

Much to my dismay the Steyr arms production has been moved to Vienna. Only Ag-tractors and trucks are built in the town of Steyr. The original factory is still there but no more waffenfabrik. There is no meuseume no nothing mentioning "Steyr Waffenfabrik" There is only a passing mention in the Albreit Meuseume with a picture of war time production of FLAK 30(?). Austria is a beautiful country but you would never know they were involved in a major war.
Sorry for the post highjack!!
 
JP said:
Steyr never manufactured bayonets for the Berthier or Lebel rifles, as I said above only for the Gras Model 1874 under contract for the French and Greek governments.
Click to expand...

I just purchased a Steyr-made M1874 that I think is a Greek contract model.
photo_dump1818.jpg

Steyr_mark.jpg


I see that there is a wealth of knowledge here regarding bayonets, I'd appreciate some help regarding a "customizing" job. As you can see in the following pic, a previous owner decided to notch his initials on the handle.
Steyr_hilt-1.jpg

Would the wet rag and iron trick work to possibly raise the grain in that spot?
In addition, all the original models I have seen so far show a dark-stained and possibly varnished handle. The previous owner decided to sand the wood on mine, what type of stain and colour can I use to bring it back to near original
condition? Thanks.
 
During the Gras period, France was always looking for a better rifle. Alfred Kropatschek came up with a tube-magazine repeater that used a sort-of-a modified Gras bolt, so the French Marines bought a bunch. Steyr manufactured these, or so I read somewhere. They later built the Portuguese Kropatscheks in 1885 and the 1885/93 contract, also the original 1903 Greek Mannlichers, Romanian and Dutch Mannlichers, likely other contracts to boot; this would include the Chileno and Swiss ones.

France was impressed with the Kropatschek and used it as the basis for the Lebel, adopted as the Mle. 1886, later '86/'93.

Berthier came in as a cheap rifle for the Colonies in 1890, '92 as a Carbine, a slightly different model in 1907 and then the mass-produced 1907/15 and 1907/16, 3 and 5 rounds respectively.

If the Gras bayonet would fit the early Kropatschek and Steyr built the Krops, then it would make sense that they would sell by complete 'stands': one of everything, rifle, bayonet, sling and so forth.

Just me p*ssin' in the wind, but might have something in it. I really know very little about French equipment... but I do know enough to know how little I DO know.

But that is a beautiful old piece of work. For the one that got sanded, likely the hot-iron and damp-cloth won't raise it because wood is missing. Raises dents nicely, though, but the original wood is still there. For stain, try a dark Walnut, then protect the wood with something like BLO and Japan dryer.

For sheer CLASS, NOBODY did it better than the French in that period.
 
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