Different grains in 9mm ammo = big difference in shooting?

Until the Angels Fall

Until the Angels Fall

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I have a Smith and Wesson M&P9 and have only fired about 55 rounds out of it. I have fired about 40 rounds of 124grain Brass Blazzer FMJs (ball ammo) and was shocked by the accuracy especially because I am so new to pistols. I was hitting targets 25 yards away with 5 shot groups about 5" or a little more......not amazing but pretty good for a total pistol noob. I bought a box of Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement ammo today (147grains....FMJ, semi wad-cutter) and I could not hit a board about 6" wide and 5' long.....from about 10-12 yards. WTF? The only thing I was able to hit was a steel 45 gallon drum......skills right?:p Is the ammo really THAT different in performance? Did I just have beginners luck at first? Any idea, tips?

Thanks, UTAF
 
In my experience, the weight makes zero difference. Having shot mixture of several brands and weights of 9m through the same magazine I see no difference in accuracy/consistency performance. What I believe is more relevant aside from the shooter, is the felt recoil of different loads. Some brands and/or weights tend be quite snappy and violent. Where as some loads(usually the heavier stuff) feels a lot smoother to shoot. This variation in recoil can increase ones flinch. All in all, the shooter is responsible for the vast majority of accurate or inaccurate fire. The ammo and pistol play minor roles.

TDC
 
I've seen this before even with my short time shooting. Or maybe I'm just hanging around with too many newer shooters. New shooter does well for the first box or two then for some reason develops a flinch. 147 may not shoot as well from your gun but it sure as blazes won't be THAT bad. I'm afraid it's you and that new flinch you've got.

When you shoot you want to commit to a full trigger pull. Also you want to use a smooth pull. It can be fairly fast but it must be smooth and not a snatchy pull. Also commit to pulling the trigger smoothly back to the full travel so it stops moving. By doing so it can help you avoid the dreaded flinch because you're thinking about the full travel trigger pull instead of waiting for the big noise.

Shooting handguns well is a rather Zen like experience. You need to disconnect yourself from the actual BANG and recoil and have full focus on the front sight and holding it on the target while moving ONLY your trigger finger. When the gun does go bang it should come as a surprise. You don't want to anticipate the BANG in any way or it'll result in a flinch.

You also want to work on the correct hold for your gun. Here's my frequently provided links to the online freebies that I found the most useful.

An excellent description of the two handed thumbs forward semi auto pistol grip. This write up ties in well with the next link.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Todd Jarret in a trailer for a video on pistol gripping and shooting. Lots of good hints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Revolver handling. Five great vids from the master, Jerry Miculek.
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4l
 
Some good advice from BCRider. I would add that recoil is proportional to the weight of the bullet, so there will be somewhat greater recoil from a heavier bullet, assuming the same powder charge for both light and heavy bullets. The difference in recoil between the same cartridges using 124 gr. and 147 gr. bullets really can't be very much, though. However, dealing in loads that push heavier bullets faster will also increase felt recoil. The heavier bullets with heavier loads really do make a difference, especially if you're shooting "+P" loads. However, training and familiarity are key in learning to work with the heavier loads. It's also true that some cartridges shoot better in some guns than others. Work with a number of different brands, weights and loads, and you'll soon learn which you can do your best with. In my case, cartridges with 115 gr. bullets are best.
 
I bought a case of the Win Ranger from Gobles. I find it more accurate in my Glock than SB and American Eagle. Little more ouph behind it though. Its good ammo.
 
I notice that I shoot better with 115 or 147's but not as well with 124's. It makes little sense to me. I think being as new as you are, you can't yet blame the bullet for your shooting skills ! Keep on practicing.
 
MTF said:
Some good advice from BCRider. I would add that recoil is proportional to the weight of the bullet, so there will be somewhat greater recoil from a heavier bullet, assuming the same powder charge for both light and heavy bullets. The difference in recoil between the same cartridges using 124 gr. and 147 gr. bullets really can't be very much, though. However, dealing in loads that push heavier bullets faster will also increase felt recoil. The heavier bullets with heavier loads really do make a difference, especially if you're shooting "+P" loads. However, training and familiarity are key in learning to work with the heavier loads. It's also true that some cartridges shoot better in some guns than others. Work with a number of different brands, weights and loads, and you'll soon learn which you can do your best with. In my case, cartridges with 115 gr. bullets are best.
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It's actually opposite - heavier bullet - less recoil.
Depending on rate of twist of the barrel, your bullet may not get stabilized thus high spread.
 
In my own experience, it takes a long time to get back to how well you did the first time you shot.

Just keep plinking away.

Take your time. Concentrate on every shot. Even do dry fire training at home. Your groups will tighten up.
 
Thanks for all the tips everyones, I am gonna check out those videos also from BCRider. I am planning on buying a few different brands of ammo and different bullet weights and see what works best for me and my gun. I am also planning on grabbing snap caps and doing some dry firing practice at home too.
 
Until the Angels Fall said:
Thanks for all the tips everyones, I am gonna check out those videos also from BCRider. I am planning on buying a few different brands of ammo and different bullet weights and see what works best for me and my gun. I am also planning on grabbing snap caps and doing some dry firing practice at home too.
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Get a .22 that is close to your centerfire pistol - if possible, get a rimfire conversion - you'll thank me and so will your wallet.

When one of my guys starts to develop a bit of a flinch from too much 9/40/44/45 they go straight back to the .22 for a couple hundred rounds and it has never failed to help. It removes the excuse of "it's the recoil throwing me off"...
 
Last month I spent sometime shooting from a rest using 147 gr solids using Reminton and Winchester ammo. At 15 yards from a rest the Winchester White Box ammo was all over the target while the Remington shot as tight as I could hold. It may have been a bad box of ammo but not all factory works well out of all guns. That day I was using my M&P 9MM and my CZ 85 Combat.

Frankly the results were surprising.

You might want to do some testing of your own.

Take Care

Bob
 
Yea I am wanting a .22 pistol but I won't have the money to throw down on a nice one for a while. I am wanting a Ruger Mark III 22/45 Bull barrel......so I will need to save about $600.00to get one after tax.
 
I agree with Canuck44. I have noticed a huge difference in accuracy with my CZ75 between the 115grn and the 125grn. further testing is needed, or you could let someone else shoot the gun with multiple types of ammo and find out.
 
Farlsincharge said:
I don't think even a stainless would be close to 600.00
The blued can be had new for just under $400 shipped to your door.
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Or pick up something used - I picked up 2 different Mk1's for $125 apiece and they last forever. As an example, back in the mid-80's I bought a used Mk1 Target 5.5" HB and put a brick a week through it for most of a year. I then sold it it for exactly what I paid for it.

Used is often-times your best bet...
 
A .22 is a fantastic training companion. For much of my first year of shooting I would set up my .22 and my 9mm. I'd work through a mag or two of the .22 and then just flow into a mag of the 9mm while concentrating on trying to maintain the focus and proper technique. It paid off in gold by more quickly allowing me to train out of my flinch with the cheap stuff and more effectively than trying to do the same thing with center fire ammo.

I'd suggest you get the Ruger as soon as you possibly can if you're shooting regularly. THe cost in ammo you save shooting .22 vs 9mm will help dull the impact of the cost for the gun.

.22 can also be fun in it's own right. We have a class for .22 pistol in the local club's monthly Speed Steel matches for example. If your local clubs don't have anything of this sort then consider volunteering to start something of the sort be it Speed Steel or a .22 version of PPC shooting.
 
Different guns have different likes. My high power DETESTS anyting other then 115's. And for preference they'd better be jacketed. My xd, really didn't care what i fed it, though there was a definete point of impact shift between 147 and 115-124. In general, in 9, i hate 147's, find them less reliable, and more likely to bobble in the gun if your grip is off when your moving, which makes sense due to the lower slide velocities they generate.

The original weight for the caliber was 115, with 124 the nato standard. Most barrels are optimized for that length of bullet.
 
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