An interesting idea for my Gewehr 98 sporter *Project Update Dec. 20th 2011*

[Nabs]

Hey all,

You may remember the Gewehr 98 sporter I acquired about four or five months back and had inquired as to the possibility of restoring the abused rifle to its former Imperial configuration. Well that idea went out of the window when I realized the barrel had been cut down to 24" from the original 29". I was depressed with the state of the rifle but after some cleaning and care over the past four months, she is no longer that rusted pile of cobwebs I picked up. Interestingly, every part matches the receiver except for the firing pin, safety, bolt sleeve, and cocking piece which all match themselves. There is also evidence of a depot overhaul at one point at two parts are forced matched to the rifle. If you guys like, I can show you some before and after pictures as she is looking quite good now.

Anyway, on to my idea. I realized from reading up on the Gewehr 98 sniper variant that out of four million Gewehr 98s made from 1898 to 1918, approximately 17,000 were converted to sniper configuration from 1915 to 1918. Thats less than half a percent of total production for those interested in a mathematical number. It also makes you think just how many of those are surviving today ? My idea of restoring this Gewehr 98 to something more than just a simple beat up and forgotten rifle is to turn her into a Gewehr 98 sniper clone by acquiring the needed pieces to restore her to military configuration and looking for reproduction claw scope mounts and a reproduction scope that can come as close as possible to the real thing as originals would be far beyond any budget I can wield at this time. The reciever has already been modified to take a dove tail rear sight so the damage to it is already done. I was also thinking of mounting a scope on it anyway.

The toughest part of the project, aside from acquiring the parts over time, would be to find a replacement 29" barrel with, hopefully, Lange rear sight still on it otherwise I have a few replacement parts that can fill in. The bolt handle has already been crudely turned down and the stock heavily abused and dinged up with a crude cut out for the turned down bolt handle. Originally, the safety would not function so I had to make a slightly deeper indentation to the one already present on the stock to allow the safety to function without hindrance.

So, thats my idea, creating a Gewehr 98 sniper clone that can come as close as possible to the real thing, what do you guys think ? The gun smithing fees for a new barrel installation as well as the installation of the scope mounts will be costly (I wish I could do it myself and avoid those fees as I would get much more satisfaction doing it myself).

The parts I will need to begin acquiring over time are as follows:

-replacement stock and hand guard or a suitable fore end to splice to the cut down one already on the rifle.
-front and rear bands
-29" barrel with lange rear sight still on it preferably but not a requirement right off the bat
-reproduction scope and scope mounts

I know many of you will say it is a money pit but honestly, how many genuine Gewehr 98 snipers are you going to find today that won't take half your pension to acquire ? Even at that point, it would probably be a safe queen more than anything else (atleast in my view).

Thoughts everyone ? I'm interested in hearing opinions on this (fingers crossed for enthusiastic ones).

 

[H Wally]

Do it. The gun is buggered as it is, so you may as well make what you want from it. A sniper G98 would be something out of the ordinary for sure. May as well fabricate a sheetmetal trench mag for it too, since you're having to build the rest of it!

(I'd post a pic of it, but have long since lost what I'm thinking of. It was a Gew 98 with extended sheet metal mag that inserted into the regular magwell in place of the mag plate, and a very interesting long eye relief sight that looked surprisingly like the modern acog scope.... I believe I saw it on a bud haynes auction list...)

Seems you're fortunate in that there was no "standard" sniper rifle of the era, so you can make one that simply uses period design mounts and scope and be fairly accurate. No one could really say it was wrong.

I could very well be wrong too, I haven't double checked my info. I think you're onto a winner though.

 

[J996]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Muzzleblast/waffen_ss_sniper.jpg

Hell yes, that would be a neat toy

 

[Nabs]

Thanks Wally, every bit of encouragement helps! I have referenced some different books and websites and "Mauser Military Rifles of the World 4th Edition" has some nice photos of a period Gewehr 98 sniper with some close ups of the scope mounts. The receiver on my sporter is dated 1905 at Danzig but it should work out just fine. The bluing is also almost gone on many of the metal parts that were exposed (forgotten in the attic for a couple of decades ?). I am thinking of re-bluing the parts but that isn't the highest thing on the priority list.

I will take some pictures and show you what I have done so far to clean the sporter up.

A trench mag would be a cool addition too but that would have to be pinned to 5 I think ? Sad too, nothing quite like having to load 4 charger clips of ammo and trying to close down the bolt afterwards as I heard this was an experience the German soldier in the trenches did not like doing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Muzzleblast/waffen_ss_sniper.jpg

Hell yes, that would be a neat toy

The rifle pictured is a Kar98b or a Gewehr 98 post war modified that has been scoped out (tough to tell without seeing the top of the receiver), or even an original Gewehr 98 sniper A beautiful rifle to say the least and the rifle of my dreams second only to an early WW1 era Gewehr 98 sniper.

 

[Nabs]

Here are some pictures to give you guys an idea of where this sporter was when I got her and where she is now:

Butt plate:

Before

After (still needs some work)

Bolt:

Before

After (still needs a bit of clean up)

Receiver:

Before

After

Trigger guard:

Before

After

That should give you all a general idea of where she was and where she is now.

 

[smellie]

Check out the gun shows.... friend of mine bought an ORIGINAL German War One scope for 50 bucks.

Workd real nice, too.

 

[Nabs]

Check out the gun shows.... friend of mine bought an ORIGINAL German War One scope for 50 bucks.

Workd real nice, too.

Very interesting, I would have thought scopes like that would sell for almost as much as an all matching Gewehr 98 in some cases.

Thanks for the heads up, I will keep my eyes open.

 

[Nabs]

Speaking of which, would you friend happen to have any photos ? I would greatly appreciate some reference photos of the scope itself as well as the sight picture.

 

[H Wally]

A trench mag would be a cool addition too but that would have to be pinned to 5 I think ? Sad too, nothing quite like having to load 4 charger clips of ammo and trying to close down the bolt afterwards as I heard this was an experience the German soldier in the trenches did not like doing.

Nope - it's a bolt action rifle so the sky is the limit for mag capacity Go on, check yourself, there's even a 7.62x39 enfield on here with a nice big scary curved mag.

ALSO - You said your barrel had been cut down.... and I see wikipedia says 29 inches is the standard length... but something sounds wrong there, you might want to have a look at another source.
http://www.gunbro ker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161043068 - this one has a 24 inch barrel apparently, and looks right to me. I dunno, something's fishy.

 

[desporterizer]

What does the front sight look like? Some gew98 did get bent bolts later in military life along with a barrel trim.

 

[Nabs]

Nope - it's a bolt action rifle so the sky is the limit for mag capacity Go on, check yourself, there's even a 7.62x39 enfield on here with a nice big scary curved mag.

ALSO - You said your barrel had been cut down.... and I see wikipedia says 29 inches is the standard length... but something sounds wrong there, you might want to have a look at another source.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161043068 - this one has a 24 inch barrel apparently, and looks right to me. I dunno, something's fishy.

I forgot about that detail, I guess I applied my experience with my SKS in regards to the magazine capacity,

That is a decent looking Mauser oberndorf that saw Turkish service but the barrel is not 24", it looks like (and should be) ~ 29". I am going to say the poster of that auction made an error there. The barrel on my sporter, when put side by side with my full length Gewehr 98s, has had the barrel cut down to the point where the muzzle ends at the point that the front band should have originally ended and the bayonet lug started. The barrel is also the same length as my Kar98k.

I might as well ask this question, is there a way to "splice" 5 or so inches of a barrel back onto my sporter ? In any case, it would probably be easier (and safer) to acquire a replacement barrel.

What does the front sight look like? Some gew98 did get bent bolts later in military life along with a barrel trim.

The original front sight is gone and the barrel (as you know) cut back to 24" and re-crowned. There is a crudely welded on sporter sight on there at the moment.

You are correct about some post war Gewehr 98s did receive bent bolts but, sadly, the bolt present in my sporter appears to have been crudely turned down with the help of a wrench. When compared to my Weimar modified rifles, there is no evidence to support a re-work. My guess is that she was a vet bring back that may have been duffle cut and was simply turned into a sporter afterwards. The bolt handle is not a perfectly turned down handle and is slightly bent towards the rear of the rifle. The bolt knob has been drilled out to help lighten the rifle. For my purposes though, the bolt (although looking quite crude) should serve just fine for my idea.

 

[Drachenblut]

Nabs,
According to my understanding of rifle pressures, the entire barrel needs to be a one piece unit, otherwise it could easily fly apart. Don't forget we are dealing with pressures of 47,000 CPU and up. Remember the Russian saying "Is not safe. Is Gun"

 

[tiriaq]

A smoothbored barrel extension could be added.
Given the rifle you are starting with, using it as a basis for a replica of a G98 sniper's rifle would be a bit of an uphill struggle.
You could restore it as a representative G98 as converted to a short rifle in the '20s. It could be scoped with an older German sporting rifle scope.
Is the bore good enough to bother with?

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Once you strip off all the parts that are useable, all you have is a trigger guard and a receiver without the bolt. Gun looks pretty salty. Bolt saw the grinder. Maybe look for another Gew candidate for this project.
You might be better off to look for another project even an RC K98 with a HT or LSR might be more feasable and cheaper as your barrel and stock is good to go. This way it's just a scope and mount.
For the Gew project if you really want to do it, I don't even know what to say for a budget price as parts are expensive and hard to find (maybe never find them) as well as gunsmith fees, blueing, etc....

You might have to make a new Gew98 stock with a duplicator machine as when was the last time you saw one for sale?

 

[H Wally]

Splicing is the way to go in my opinion. Do a fair bit of it with ross rifles, and if you take the time to find a chunk of wood with the right grain, strip both pieces, then refinish them together it's impossible to tell the difference. Cost is FARRRRR less than having a stock copied. Of course, there are tricks to making your splice and addition perfect. Tricks you could say

Stocks are relatively easily copied if you can find one to copy. All it takes it money and the right guy.

I still think you're into a good idea, just be aware it's going to cost you. Are you missing the rear sights on yours? If you've got most of the parts they can just be swapped onto the new barrel.


Edit - thought you were talking about splicing the stock, not the barrel - ignore!

 

[J996]

Please correct me if im wrong but could you not substitute a barrel from a Persian 98/29?
These were being imported only a few years ago, some just as barreled actions and not as complete rifles.

Sadly it looks like Samco in the US is all out of the actions.
http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles-98-29.html
How hard are they to find on this side of the border?

 

[Nabs]

Thank you for your thoughts everyone. I thought about the barrel splicing at work today and decided it would be unsafe to proceed with so I have considering sourcing an alternative barrel replacement. The bore on the cut down barrel is dark but the rifling is still sharp. It is a shame it was cut down.

As far as the stock goes, I have considered splicing a new fore end on the stock. It appears the stock was cut right at the point where the rear band would sit and simply sanded around that area in order to be smooth. I am thinking of going back half an inch to where the stock has not been sanded, cutting that end off and splicing a new fore end on this section. I was thinking of putting some re-enforcement pegs or something similar in both ends of the wood than mate them together with the help of a moisture resistant adhesive to hold them together. My father is quite handy when it comes to wood working (after making most of the furniture in our house himself) so I am enlisting his help in the project. What are your thoughts on this, as far as making sure this fore end splice doesn't come off in the future, Wally ?

Coyote, I know this sporter is not an ideal candidate but I simply will not feel bad about making it into something more interesting and fulfilling then what it currently is right now. I have thought about parts sourcing and some different areas come to mind. South American Mausers: Brazilian 1908s for the front and rear bands, perhaps some other metal pieces maybe even a replacement stock if the splicing doesn't work and even the Argentinan model 1891 with their Lange rear sight parts that are identical to the German ones on the Gewehr 98. The Lange sight would be mainly cosmetic as effort to sight the rifle would go into the scope itself. All I would really need is the two adjustment tabs and the two little springs for each tab and my Lange rear sight issue is almost solved. That way I would only need a barrel with the rear sight base and front sight on it. Most of the parts I require (even a splicable fore end) have been found on E-bay for a good price. The barrel will be a little difficult to procure but I haven't tried on Gunboards yet which almost always has something along the lines of a barrel or spare parts on their WTS/WTT board. The most expensive portion to consider would be the new barrel installation and the scope mount installation. If I can remove and install a new barrel myself (perhaps have the gun smith simply check to see if it is tight) I could save a heck of a lot of cash and devote it towards the scope and scope mounts. This is where I would have to probably yield as I do not have the tools to make the indentations in the receiver to mount the turret mounts for the scope. Can't win them all I guess.

Numrich parts list in regards to the Gewehr 98 has shrunk quite a bit and I'm not sure what most dealers in the US would do if I was to ask them to ship a barrel to me that is under the $125 limit. Gunboards may be my only choice if no one in Canada has an extra barrel that has a good bore.

 

[Nabs]

Please correct me if im wrong but could you not substitute a barrel from a Persian 98/29?
These were being imported only a few years ago, some just as barreled actions and not as complete rifles.

Sadly it looks like Samco in the US is all out of the actions.
http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles-98-29.html
How hard are they to find on this side of the border?

Thank you for the link, this is certainly an option (should they get the items in stock) if I simply cannot locate a suitable barrel replacement before hand.

 

[Nabs]

Here are some pictures focusing on the rear sight area, the cut down and smoothed out portion of the new fore end and the muzzle with crown depicted along with a side by side comparison with one of my Gewehr 98s in full military configuration.

The hole in the new fore end is what is left of the cleaning rod channel. The cleaning rod nut may still be present but as there was a screw put in there when I got this sporter, I doubt it.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

It would make more sense to put a HT on your full wood Gew98 using acraglass, no harm done and no drilling to the receiver. I've heard it works and is removeable.

The cost of parts/work for the Bubba Gew will exceed the value a replacement Gew98 in pretty good shape. Sell the Bubba (or Bush Gun or Truck Gun ) and climb a few rungs on the food chain to another Gew!