M-14 Blasphemy?
- Thread starter 300Spartans
- Start date
ANSI 86XX Nickel-chromium-molybdenum steel.
ANSI 51XX Chromium steel.
If you want I can get more technical then that.
Dimitri
Please do, I am always willing to learn more.
I am a soldier not a metallurgist. If you have knowledge to contribute then by all means explain it to me.
My understanding is they are made of an appropriate equivalent steel and although early models had heat treatment issues (brittle), they are very good receivers. I have read plenty about Smith Enterprise's tests and evaluations of these receivers and apart from them sometimes having to re-heat treat certain ones, they are said to be very good forgings.
Is this not true? What is the deal with the steel?
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As far as I'm concerned, Ron Smith know's his sh*t and his business is evidence of that.
I notice he doesn't like cast receivers either.
And it appears that in his company's expert opinion based on years of experience, is that a chinese receiver is about as close as yer gonna get to G.I. Spec.
Other than LRB I suppose.
Let's not argue about what we all know is fact.
I notice he doesn't like cast receivers either.
And it appears that in his company's expert opinion based on years of experience, is that a chinese receiver is about as close as yer gonna get to G.I. Spec.
Other than LRB I suppose.
Let's not argue about what we all know is fact.
A quick answer is yes I do perform NM procedures.
I offer a standard accurizing package for the M14 type platform including norinco, polytech, Springfield and LRB rifles
This includes Basic match conditioning where NM procedures are. Applied to oprod guide, gas assembly and flash hider splines, gas lock timed.
Then I perform what I call a Civillian Match Trigger job, hammer hook wall clearanced, all areas detailed in NM criteria are polished, sear and hammer hook engaement angles corrected or trued and polished, clean 2 stage and crisp 5.5 lbs break.
I also, while timing the gas lock, measure gas band/ barrel shoulder gap, while an alignment fixture rod keeps the gas port perfectly aligned.
The gas system the gets jigged up and gapped as measured, and gas band is Tig welded acording to national match specs. Chromoly rod for chinese cylinders, stainless rod for usgi.
At the completion of work, a full inspection and written report with headspace verification is performed and provided with your rifle for referance.
This is normally 155.00+75.00+65.00 BUT if booked and sent in by april 15 , the gas system is Tig unitized for free ;
I have other deals for shorties as well, see my dealer adds in dealer announcements and updates forum
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4244332
I'd be happy to answer any further questions by email m14doctor@hotmail.com
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Dimitri, I was given incorrect information from a credible source back in 2004.
For the bazillionth time, Chinese receivers are NOT made from high chromium series steel. Repeat, they are not made from 5100 series or 52100 steel. Ignore the 2004 article, please.
Chinese receivers are made from equivalent AISI 8620 steel. Smith Enterprise, Inc. examined and tested the first Poly Technologies receivers imported into the United States including some of the raw forgings. I have seen Polaroid photos of these first receivers and forgings at Smith Enterprise. Smith Enterprise, Inc., Keng's Firearms Specialty and Poly Technologies met twice for several days back in the 1980s to discuss receiver manufacturing.
If that is not good enough, Karl Maunz also had the Chinese receiver independently tested in the late 1980s while he was living in Georgia. Same result, steel that is equivalent to AISI 8620.
For the bazillionth time, Chinese receivers are NOT made from high chromium series steel. Repeat, they are not made from 5100 series or 52100 steel. Ignore the 2004 article, please.
Chinese receivers are made from equivalent AISI 8620 steel. Smith Enterprise, Inc. examined and tested the first Poly Technologies receivers imported into the United States including some of the raw forgings. I have seen Polaroid photos of these first receivers and forgings at Smith Enterprise. Smith Enterprise, Inc., Keng's Firearms Specialty and Poly Technologies met twice for several days back in the 1980s to discuss receiver manufacturing.
If that is not good enough, Karl Maunz also had the Chinese receiver independently tested in the late 1980s while he was living in Georgia. Same result, steel that is equivalent to AISI 8620.
I'll accept that answer coming from you.
You know, I got a couple new SA battle packs and a bunch of Remington UMC on stripper clips I want to burn but don't want to change my 168gr SMK zero on my M1A. If I find one that has changed hands a couple times since arriving from China this summer I think I many just buy it as a plinker to lend out at the range to new shooters.
Dimitri
I'll accept that answer coming from you.
You know, I got a couple new SA battle packs and a bunch of Remington UMC on stripper clips I want to burn but don't want to change my 168gr SMK zero on my M1A. If I find one that has changed hands a couple times since arriving from China this summer I think I many just buy it as a plinker to lend out at the range to new shooters.
Dimitri
YAY Dimitri.... Finally going to stick your toe in the murky waters of the dark side...
Been waiting for this day LOL you will have to let us know your thoughts after you get to shoot one you call your own
I guess you see alot of Aerospace related components on a daily basis, give us a taste of your expertise................. As someone with 15 years experience in the industry (3rd generation) which includes purchasing and production/quality control for a major aircraft manufacturer that saw sourced components from the far east side by side to the domestic duel source, i would say 100% of the time i will take north American made over Chinese.
Even the Asians source their critical aerospace/defense components into North America, i know this as a fact from a contract my company handles.
Uuuuh anyhow, the point was that they can produce good quality work. Things like mold making etc are almost exclusively done in China. I can only speak to my experience. Therefore don't be afraid of buying an M14 that is made in China.
For those who are concerned about the negative effects of outsourcing to overseas facilities (something NEA does BTW) I sympathize but without the institution of some significant protectionist policies the reality of business is that China is the new status quo. Do they have ways to go, sure but they are already well on their way. One thing China has proven it can do and do well is firearms production. There was a time when people said Japan only produced garbage, then came the 80s/90s. I'm not saying that facilities in China are the best, only that they are good and getting better.
For those who are concerned about the negative effects of outsourcing to overseas facilities (something NEA does BTW) I sympathize but without the institution of some significant protectionist policies the reality of business is that China is the new status quo. Do they have ways to go, sure but they are already well on their way. One thing China has proven it can do and do well is firearms production. There was a time when people said Japan only produced garbage, then came the 80s/90s. I'm not saying that facilities in China are the best, only that they are good and getting better.
YAY Dimitri.... Finally going to stick your toe in the murky waters of the dark side...
See the issue stems from spending money that ends up in China, I cannot support a Communist country, and I do avoid Chinese goods the best I can due to their overall lack of manufacturing quality I've seen. However if the rifle is being sold by its 2nd owner I am figuring why not it would not be going to the Chinese.
The Italian rifles John is looking to bring in sound interesting.
You know it, I know it, tens of thousands of others in North America know it but you can't win in a argument about it.
Dimitri
"Did", but no longer does, .......... Im willing to put my money where my mouth is, the only components outsourced were the parts run for Rauch tactical and a single run of muzzle brakes. The only work done at our plant in India are non critical nuclear and aerospace parts for the asian market.
India and Eastern Europe are the go to markets for low cost crtical components.
300Spartans
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canada of course
I'll stick with CANADIAN made whenever possible even if it costs more hehehehe
But I'll gladly build rifles on chinese receivers... They got those close enough
Canadian made receivers would be very, very cool and also patriotic!
Don't get me wrong my only point was that the poly/norc M14s are good to go. Lets be honest without norc/poly/China there would be no MBR forum, M14Doctor, clothes on our backs and shoes on our feet.
We currently are either producing product or are scheduled to produce product in India, Israel, the Czech Rep, China, the USA, Brazil, and of course Canada (including our new inhouse facility) all depending on the product, customer and market. If we could produce everything inhouse there is no question we would.
We currently are either producing product or are scheduled to produce product in India, Israel, the Czech Rep, China, the USA, Brazil, and of course Canada (including our new inhouse facility) all depending on the product, customer and market. If we could produce everything inhouse there is no question we would.
I've got a list of countries I'll buy from Canada, The US, England, AUS/NZ, Most of Western Europe, Israel, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, South Africa etc.
Sadly China is at the bottom along with Iran, North Korea, etc.
Dimitri
I've got a list of countries I'll buy from Canada, The US, England, AUS/NZ, Most of Western Europe, Israel, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, South Africa etc.
Sadly China is at the bottom along with Iran, North Korea, etc.
Dimitri
This is why we are machining everything for the U.S and Canadian markets here in Canada even though we are taking 20%-30% less in profits. Heck, we are so busy we hired 3 more guys just for the fire arms cell two weeks ago to run parts that could have been offloaded to India. Even our Tavor products for outside Canada are being made in Canada.
The more we offload and convert to service industry jobs the more our standard of living will go down until we become a 100% consumer based nation. Look at the bolded numbers, the U.S swapped 5.8 million manufacturing jobs for service jobs and tax revenues decreased by 66.9 billion. Think about that, think about how much less people are making.
NEA may be small and our effort maybe a drop in the ocean but at least we will be able to say we did our part.
