High-volume .223 reloading; to trim or not to trim?!

rnbra-shooter said:
I have a 650 and I occasionally do "high volume" .223 or .308 on it. I was recently sizing some 1X fired military .223 brass, and as I was swaging the primer pockets it with the Dillon swaging tool I was wondering if one might be able to do this on the press itself - replace the primer seater with a specially shaped swaging tool. The only "gotcha" I can think of is that th press holds the case by only half of its rim, I wonder if that is strong enough to swage the primer pocket without distorting the extractor groove? (my guess is that it would probably be OK...) Anybody try this....? I was even thinking of suggesting this to Dillon, or asking their opinion on it.


When processing once-fired brass, I have found that it is not necessary to trim them. Obviously at some point trimming will be necessary.

I have a Dillon RT1200 and I use it only rarely, I find it is a colossal pain. It is really fast (that's the good part), but it is noisy as hell, needs a shopvac or equivalent to suck away the chips (even more noise!!), and it cuts the case mouth very squarely leaving a very sharp edge that needs chamfering both inside and out.

It's actually the RT1200's need for chamfering that (mostly) defeats its utility as a high-throughput tool for me. I wonder how/if others have solved this problem?
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I loaded boat tail bullets. No problem at all.

As for using the 650 for swaging, don't waste your time. Without a backing die supporting the case, you'll break your shellplates quickly. Dillon has heard about this idea, and swiftly pointed out such a conversion wouldn't work and would result in unwarranteed breakage.
 
Canuck223 said:
I loaded boat tail bullets. No problem at all.
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You didn't find that the sharp case mouth cut and scraped and shaved copper from the bullet?

As for using the 650 for swaging, don't waste your time. Without a backing die supporting the case, you'll break your shellplates quickly. Dillon has heard about this idea, and swiftly pointed out such a conversion wouldn't work and would result in unwarranteed breakage.
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I mentioned my clever idea to Dillon in an email today, they told me that it wouldn't work (though they didn't mention breaking shellplates - wow!). Since he saved me a few hours in the machine shop, I owe one of their customer service reps a virtual beer ;-)

Back to using the bench-mounted swager I guess. It works well enough, it is just slow and awkward to load each case onto the support rod (particularly .223 with its small case mouth)
 
rnbra-shooter said:
You didn't find that the sharp case mouth cut and scraped and shaved copper from the bullet?



I mentioned my clever idea to Dillon in an email today, they told me that it wouldn't work (though they didn't mention breaking shellplates - wow!). Since he saved me a few hours in the machine shop, I owe one of their customer service reps a virtual beer ;-)

Back to using the bench-mounted swager I guess. It works well enough, it is just slow and awkward to load each case onto the support rod (particularly .223 with its small case mouth)
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I loaded SS-109's, and never once did I find a shaved bullet.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
(I assume there must be some reason why you can't set up your trimmer after a case has been sized..?)
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The way the Possum Hollow trimmer works is based on using the shoulder as a datum point; the back end of the case is totally unsupported (contrast this with the Lee product or RCBS product which both use the base of the case as the datum point). If one sets the tool up on resized brass, then trims fired brass (or vice-versa), the datum reference from the shoulder changes.

This is why I'd have to find a "sweetspot" using fired brass (then resizing, measuring, approving) if I were to use it to trim fired brass.

The Possum Hollow KT-1 is sort of like a "pencil sharpener" for your brass; neck/shoulder go in, but the back end is supported by your hand. It's got a machined collar which contacts the shoulder at a suitable angle, and the carbide cutter slides back and forth inside the cutter body - length adjustment is via a setscrew in the trimmer sidewall.

It's fast as bejeezus, and I think I'll enjoy it a lot more trimming cases without lube on them! Holding on to those buggers post-sizing/lube is a sonofagun!

I'm waiting to hear back from Dillon and a member here on a 1050 package; after checking the 'war chest' (i.e. the 'mad money' cash stack in the gun safe) I've decided conclusively that I'm going 1050 and the devil may care. Thanks to Canuck223 also for his very helpful advice.

-M
 
Doc M said:
I love this news, because that's what I've got 2,000 of and would buy more in a heartbeat from my supplier if I had a 1050 to load 'em quickly.

-M
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Would you believe I used to suffer a twinge of guilt over the profit I was making selling ATK manufactured ss-109's for $105/k:eek:
 
So I heard back from Dillon's sales dept regarding a quote for the Super 1050 in .223...

Base unit $1589.95
Shipping (FedEx Ground) $233.29 :runaway::eek:
Total $1823.24

Holy Bejeezus! $233 shipping? And being FedEx Ground, it's not even going to be a 2-3 day proposition!

Anyone else have similar experience regarding the cost? Now I'm definitely more interested in hearing from my associate here on CGN about potential preferred pricing... $233 shipping???

Then again, at the same time, USD$1823 for a machine that will last the rest of my natural life, comes 100% factory adjusted and ready-to-run (minus adjusting a powder charge), swages primer crimps in a progressive fashion, and can put out in excess of 1,200 rounds per hour if I do my part... I'm still not totally gobsmacked by the price, considering the long-term savings in time and money.

-M
 
Dillon shipped my 650 by Canada Post, you could try asking for a quote through Canada Post. It would probably be near what Fedex would charge but keep in mind Fedex will charge a BROKERAGE fee of probably well over $100.
 
If you're a bolt guy, just ackley it. Trim once and wear out the brass. Ive got a 223 AI and a 22-250AI. Planning a 243 AI, but my wildcatting mind keeps trying to talk my wallet into a 6mm WSM 44 degree shoulder. Wallet keeps telling me that 243 brass is cheap, the dies are bought for the AI and don' waste $500 for custom reamer, HS gauges and dies. ANyway, point is, they don't need trimming and a 223 AI goes 4000 FPS with a 40 grn. No idea how that would feed or perform in a AR.

JT.
 
Zimbu -

yes, I made one of these tools on my lathe to measure the dimensions of my 308 neck for my precision reloading there... they're pretty slick.

However, for .223 bulk ammo I want it to be safely interchangeable in various AR's... so I try to keep it straight SAAMI-spec.

-M
 
carbonrod said:
I have a power trimmer, and I used to trim after every second shooting. Seemed lame to me. I switched to an RCBS xdie, and have not had to trim since. The cases are the same length out of the die every time. Accuracy is good enough too. Unless there is an ill effect that I do not know of, I am not in a rush to trim.
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I did the same. Bought a carbon die set and skipped the triming stage.
 
So the short answer to this question is, Yes, i do have to trim every single piece of brass?.....:(

I did around 50-60, with a hand crank rcbs, and a small rcbs chamfer tool. My fingertips are nearly bleeding. I need a better trimmer.
 
jdman -

If you have a drill that'll handle a 1/2" shank, just take the handle off your RCBS hand crank and use your drill to power it. That's how I do .308 now, and I bought a Possum Hollow KT-1 for my .223. It works as advertised, I love it. Going to look into getting a PH trimmer for my .308. Either that or go with the RCBS 3-way cutter which will save me deburring after the RCBS. The PH trimmer leaves such a fine burr on my .223 that it's not even worth mentioning; I don't even chamfer/deburr those now.

-M
 
jdman said:
So the short answer to this question is, Yes, i do have to trim every single piece of brass?.....:(

I did around 50-60, with a hand crank rcbs, and a small rcbs chamfer tool. My fingertips are nearly bleeding. I need a better trimmer.
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The next time you coming through Duncan bring your brass and I will let you try to ware out my Giraud.
 
jdman said:
Yeah i do have one,i will give that a go.
It is more the chamfering that is hard on my fingertips.
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Yup.

I can't recall the size of the RCBS tool, but one of the things that makes the Redding more comfortable than the Lee is simply the fact that it is bigger.

I have put a short wide elastic band (the kind used to hold broccoli bunches together) over a chamfering tool to make it larger and more comfortable to hold.
 
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