Bolt Roller and Guide Problems

C Broad Arrow

C Broad Arrow

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I have been playing around with my M305 and I am experiencing a recurring problem. When I pull back on the operating rod/handle to send the bolt forward into battery, the roller ball slips from the operating guide.

I have had this happen on recoil as well.

I am sure this is a common problem, but have been unable to locate a thread which discusses this.

Can someone give me a nuge in the right direction to some advice on how to fix this problem.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
You have to check your oprod tab for wear and/or verify that you currently have it installed correctly into the slot.

Do a 30deg tilt test to verify your rifle is good to go.
 
Winz said:
You have to check your oprod tab for wear and/or verify that you currently have it installed correctly into the slot.

Do a 30deg tilt test to verify your rifle is good to go.
Click to expand...

I too have this problem, could you go a bit more in detail as to your check/test?

Thanks
 
New oprod time I'm afraid

If the tab is so loose inthe slot that it jumps out, especially with oprod spring in place.... The oprod tab and bearing surfaces are out of spec for that given receiver

Or.... The barrel could be seriously over indexed causing oprod to have upward twist coming out of it's track at the rear of the stroke
Remove flash hider and gas assembly, check that barrel splineways are top dead center

Also could be oprod guide jammed to right side and needs to be conditioned for match fit

In the event a new oprod is needed, I have a good inventory of RWB GI spec oprods
Email me ;)
 
I've heard of using a welder to build the tab back up than filing it back into spec. If that is the issue. Not sure how the welded area would hold up when compared to the original heat treated contact point.
 
Also could be oprod guide jammed to right side and needs to be conditioned for match fit
Click to expand...

Could you explain further and tell me how I can condition it? I have this occuring on both of my M14s. One has less than 200 rounds through it.

With this problem it makes operation less than reliable.

Many thanks for any advice in advance.
 
C Broad Arrow said:
Could you explain further and tell me how I can condition it? I have this occuring on both of my M14s. One has less than 200 rounds through it.

With this problem it makes operation less than reliable.

Many thanks for any advice in advance.
Click to expand...

remove oprod guide pin (have a new 1/8thx3/4 roll pin or solid pin for reinstall)
slide oprod guide forward and off the oprod buide barrel location
peen surface evenly all around with punch to raise the surface slightly
apply red loctite to the peened surface evenly all around
using a hard wood or plastic block , drift the oprod guide back into place
dab of loctite to the hole and instal new pin
instal gas assembly with piston
instal oprod, guide rod and spring
tap oprod guide to align oprod end center with gas piston center
do not cycle or bump for 24 hours
done like dinner :D
this is not a cure for a loose oprod at the receiver track
 
To make things clearer I have taken a picture of the problem. You will see the roller on the bolt has come out of the guide.

This happeds every 4-5 shots. In the example below I was able to manipulate the operating rod to bring about this result.

roller_guide2.jpg


Thoughts?
 
I have had similar problems with an op rod that derails:
www. m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=81718 (might require login)
Check and see if it's to any help.
 
M14Doctor said:
remove oprod guide pin (have a new 1/8thx3/4 roll pin or solid pin for reinstall)
slide oprod guide forward and off the oprod buide barrel location
peen surface evenly all around with punch to raise the surface slightly
apply red loctite to the peened surface evenly all around
using a hard wood or plastic block , drift the oprod guide back into place
dab of loctite to the hole and instal new pin
instal gas assembly with piston
instal oprod, guide rod and spring
tap oprod guide to align oprod end center with gas piston center
do not cycle or bump for 24 hours
done like dinner :D
this is not a cure for a loose oprod at the receiver track
Click to expand...

Thomas - I no longer locktite around the barrel peening for the oprod guide.
I have found the peening is sufficient to maintain oprod guide timing, and makes it easier to move it if necessary (ie - putting it out of index slightly for op rod removal from bolt cam).
The last 20 or so of my builds were done that way and are all still goin strong !
swingerlh.gif
 
chopper 1 said:
Thomas - I no longer locktite around the barrel peening for the oprod guide.
I have found the peening is sufficient to maintain oprod guide timing, and makes it easier to move it if necessary (ie - putting it out of index slightly for op rod removal from bolt cam).
The last 20 or so of my builds were done that way and are all still goin strong !
swingerlh.gif
Click to expand...

you can omit the loctite if you want but i use on every build as a matter of course. it can't hurt :)

I would have to say, if your rifle is doing what it shows in that last pic....... it's new oprod time.
what vintage are these rifles with this issue?
 
M14Doctor said:
you can omit the loctite if you want but i use on every build as a matter of course. it can't hurt :)

Your right - it doesnt hurt - just makes for less hammering for removal ,

Or TORCH TIME :eek: if you didnt use medium LOL !

DUUUUH - b t d t , got the T-shirt !

swingerlh.gif
Click to expand...
 
C Broad Arrow said:
Is it usual for new M14 to need the pins replaced so soon? Or is this just a well known QC problem with them?
Click to expand...

Not usual, very unusual, in fact. You never did say what type of rifle you have or give us any details. If these are new from Marstar you should contact John. If they are new from Springfield, you should contact Springfield. They don't look particularly new in the picture you posted. Definitely not 200 rounds worth. Can you tell us more?

Finally, are you near any of the folks who put on regular clinics? Not sure where "Above the Law" is located but sounds to me like you need someone with experience to inspect your rifles.
 
I have a complete pin set for $5 shipped and if you through in an extra $5 I'll send you a new oprod guide.
 
the groove the pin rides in on the chinese barrels is slightly over size on most i have inspected. AND the chinese pins are very brittle, over hardened and shatter. it is very common to find a loose oprod guide on a chinese rifle right out of the box. I don't feel it's a warranty issue as i'd bet 70% or better of all the chinese rifles i've inspected could benefit from the oprod guide conditioning.

often springfield barrels that i have handled have the oprod guide location knurled as part of the manufacture process. this is considered NM conditioning and may only be present on NM stamped barrels.
for average joe firearms owner..... if you can handle a punch and a small hammer, it's an easy user "upgrade"
 
powmia56 said:
Not usual, very unusual, in fact. You never did say what type of rifle you have or give us any details. If these are new from Marstar you should contact John. If they are new from Springfield, you should contact Springfield. They don't look particularly new in the picture you posted. Definitely not 200 rounds worth. Can you tell us more?

Finally, are you near any of the folks who put on regular clinics? Not sure where "Above the Law" is located but sounds to me like you need someone with experience to inspect your rifles.
Click to expand...

Both of them are Norcs. They are out of the warranty period.

"The CIty above the law" refers to Vaughan where politicians believe the law does not apply to them... hence the slogan...Vaughan use to be called "The City ABove Toronto".
 
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