45-70...buckling brass

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Bluffton Bill

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I am about as frustrated as it gets.:( New to the 45-70 reloading game). Bought a new Marlin 1895 and a set of Lee Dies. I am resizing and then using the 'flaring' die as directed. When I go to seat the bullet (Hornady 350 grain FP) though I'm getting at least 4-5 buckled cases per batch of 20. What for the love of Pete is going on?:confused: A friend thought I was sizing too far and suggested backing the sizing die off the case holder about the width of a nickel. Tried it. Didn't change a thing.

I didn't buy this critter to shoot factory. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? This is going to get fixed or there will be another Marlin on the EE.
 
Do you have a micrometer? Sound's like you are not belling (flaring) the case mouth enough, or your bullets are not being seated square, i.e. they are sitting in the seater on a bit of an angle. Another thing it could be is, have trimmed your brass? If so, have you chamfered the inside of the case mouth?
 
if you can just slide a bullet into the mouth of a fired case , don't flare it out .

* when i mean slide i mean , does it just slide in and doesn't fall out right away , or is it loose , as in turn it upside down and the bullet falls out ?
i just , measured inside diameter some fired cases , the ones that i would just crimp the bullet into , the largest measure .463 / .4635 most of them around .461/.462 " the bullets i'm using are .458 /.4585 " *

see if just lightly crimping the bullet will work for you .

i had this happen with my 45-120 , now i don't flare the necks at all .
if i need to square up a dented case mouth , i just gently bump the die up against the case mouth till it's cleaned up .

deprime , clean , reprime , powder , seat bullet , crimp , done .

just make sure the round properly chambers afterwards .

should also mention i don't generally size the neck down at all .
if i do it is only enough to make the finished cartridge chamber properly , and even then it is not more than 1/8 " of the neck .
 
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one more thought , are you seating the bullet and crimping at the same time ?

if so you may either want to break this up into 2 seperate steps , or set your dies to have less crimp . ( moving the die body up in the press , while moving the nut that controls how deep the bullet seats back down to keep the same overal length of the round )
 
We are pulling at straws with your problem, because you haven't described your problem well enough.
Come on again and tell us if they crumple from the bullet starting in, or whether the case is crushed after the bullet is seated, as from too much crimping.
Give a better explanation.
 
Bluffton Bill .......

burnt_servo is right. 45-70 brass is pretty thin, and it's best to crimp in a separate operation. I prefer to crimp with the Lee Factory crimp die. It doesn't push down on the case, and that avoids bulging the case.

- Innovative
 
Some of the info above doesn't work for me, the fired rd. will always allow a bullet to enter, you must then re size it down for proper tension on the bullet. Unless you are using an "in line seating die" you will have to bell the case mouth somewhat. The bullet should sit square on the belled case mouth when it enters seating die, crimp in a sep. step.....Bon Appettit(or whatever)
 
After experiencing the same thing with Lee dies I expect you are buckling the brass during the last part of the seating step because you are trying to apply crimp at the same time. I found my Lee bullet seating die will not work to apply a crimp without buckling the brass.
Back off the die and use it to seat the bullet only, crimp in a separate step with a crimping die and you should be fine.

If it is buckling prior to that step it is something else.
 
ben hunchak said:
Some of the info above doesn't work for me, the fired rd. will always allow a bullet to enter
Click to expand...

i should have worded that diferently ....

sometimes a fired round is really loose around a bullet , other times it can be just snug enough that all you need to do is just crimp the bullet back into place .
lots of variables can cause this besides different chamber sizes .

if i don't have to , i don't resize any of my brass in the 45-70 /45-120 family . the only problem that can arise from doing this is the rounds are really only good for the gun they where fired in , don't expect them to work in another rifle .
 
When I first started loading .45-70 I found I wasn't flaring the case neck properly and I was buckling the odd case. Once I figured that out and got the case bell die setup right, I've had no problem since.

Second thing is, I recommend you get a Lee Factory Crimp die... I use them on all straight-walled cases that I load; .458Lott, .405Win & .45-70.
 
Resize the case, and flare the case slightly, this should allow you to easily start the bullet by hand, if it still sits up on the case mouth edges, you are not flaring enough.
IMO, some of what you are experiencing is just inexperience. Once you get good at it, you should be able to seat jacketted bullets with just a good chamfering of the inside of the case mouth.
Little tip, chamfer the inside last, if you do the outside last, the thin case walls may be deformed inwards.
It's also quite easy to crimp properly with the regular die set, but it takes practice.
The Lee factory crimp die eliminates that part of the learning curve.
 
Are all your cases trimmed to the same length?

Are you crimping on the canalure?

show us a picture of a "buckled" case and I'll bet we can tell you exactly what is going on.
 
Hi,

If you're using remington brass, know that the neck is thicker than anything other than federal.

The first time you load them, take the rubber washer out of the expanding die.

After you shoot those off, adjust your sizing die until you just start to grab your bullets.

You'll find the first time you shoot hot loads in remington brass, it'll want a good trimming after.
 
Bluffton Bill said:
I am about as frustrated as it gets.:( New to the 45-70 reloading game). Bought a new Marlin 1895 and a set of Lee Dies. I am resizing and then using the 'flaring' die as directed. When I go to seat the bullet (Hornady 350 grain FP) though I'm getting at least 4-5 buckled cases per batch of 20. What for the love of Pete is going on?:confused: A friend thought I was sizing too far and suggested backing the sizing die off the case holder about the width of a nickel. Tried it. Didn't change a thing.

I didn't buy this critter to shoot factory. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? This is going to get fixed or there will be another Marlin on the EE.
Click to expand...
It sounds very much like you are trying to crimp the case into the cannelure, and that you have not trimmed all of the brass to the same length.
Unlike some of the suggestions above, since you are using a Marlin you need to both size and crimp your loads.
I don't have a Lee Factory Crimp die, but I get more than satisfactory crimping from my RCBS die set.
You are not causing crumpling from sizing too much. There is no need to back off the SIZING die. You might have to back off your SEATING die.
Try trimming all to the same length. Then try seating first and crimping in a separate operation, until you are fully comfortable with the process, and you have eliminated the crumpling problem.
 
Al-Sway said:
It sounds very much like you are trying to crimp the case into the cannelure, and that you have not trimmed all of the brass to the same length.
Unlike some of the suggestions above, since you are using a Marlin you need to both size and crimp your loads.
I don't have a Lee Factory Crimp die, but I get more than satisfactory crimping from my RCBS die set.
You are not causing crumpling from sizing too much. There is no need to back off the SIZING die. You might have to back off your SEATING die.
Try trimming all to the same length. Then try seating first and crimping in a separate operation, until you are fully comfortable with the process, and you have eliminated the crumpling problem.
Click to expand...

Backing off the sizing die will really help though. There's no need for the neck to be as small as factory sizing dies make it. The marlin chambers are quite loose and it will help seating and ultimately accuracy.
 
Thanks for the tips. The cases are buckling before the bullet is completely seated. It seems to be grabbing on oneside. Even when I try to start them as straight as I can. They are only once fired and haven't been trimmed yet. I'll check them and likely trim on the next go around.
 
I made an early post here, stating there was no use guessing at a cause, until we knew what was happening, or rather when the case was buckling.
Now, after two pages of guessing, he has told us.
Crumpling after the bullet is fully seated is a sure sign of improper setting of your seating/crimping die.
About 50% of yu guessed right and said this.
 
Bluffton Bill said:
Thanks for the tips. The cases are buckling before the bullet is completely seated. It seems to be grabbing on oneside. Even when I try to start them as straight as I can. They are only once fired and haven't been trimmed yet. I'll check them and likely trim on the next go around.
Click to expand...

Actually if you read my post I said that they are buckling before they are fully seated (way before). I'm not belling them enough. From the posts above I'm going to do the following.

I'm going to back off on the resizing die until I get just enought neck tension, but no more. Then I'm going to bell the case out a little more. And finally, I'm going to seat and crimp in two separate stages.


Thank you for your replies. It helped.
 
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