I think you got fleeced if all they gave you was the sling.
And yes, it's the grip area.
Odd Chinese SKS
- Thread starter Claven2
- Start date
I think you got fleeced if all they gave you was the sling.
And yes, it's the grip area.
Ok, as promised here are some detailed pics.
First up, comparison photo between this unknown DOM Factory 625 SKS a 1954 Tula:
Next, here are the stamped parts:
First, the rear sling swivel mount:
Next, the bolt stop (usually milled on other makes of SKS):
Next, the gas tube flange is stamped and pressed on, no blended weld like on a Russian SKS:
Trigger guard is stamped construction. The safety is non-serrated.
Follower arm is stamped in one piece, then twisted 90 degrees so the stamped out hole for the follower pin is 90 degrees to the bend of the arm:
Recoil spring retainer:
Next, here is some photos showing how much of the gun is made from cast parts that were then finish machined. Often the casting lines or casting surfaces are not toally machined off, betraying the manufacture method. On Russian SKS's, the parts are all either milled from billet or milled from forgings from what I an tell:
Gas block: Note the casting line and rough-cast surface under the sling loop:
Front sight block, note that the casting surface isn't totally machined away:
Gas block, opposite side - note that some surfaces still show rough cast marks:
Rear sight block: Note the rough cast marks around the pin:
Here we see that the recessed area just above the barrel on the rear sight block is not machined at all, just left as a rough cast surface:
Note the casting seam on the bayonet handle:
The receiver cover is machined almost everywhere, but the casting seams on the inside surfaces give it away as a casting:
At top of picture, note the machining didn't quite clear up all the casting surfaces:
First up, comparison photo between this unknown DOM Factory 625 SKS a 1954 Tula:
Next, here are the stamped parts:
First, the rear sling swivel mount:
Next, the bolt stop (usually milled on other makes of SKS):
Next, the gas tube flange is stamped and pressed on, no blended weld like on a Russian SKS:
Trigger guard is stamped construction. The safety is non-serrated.
Follower arm is stamped in one piece, then twisted 90 degrees so the stamped out hole for the follower pin is 90 degrees to the bend of the arm:
Recoil spring retainer:
Next, here is some photos showing how much of the gun is made from cast parts that were then finish machined. Often the casting lines or casting surfaces are not toally machined off, betraying the manufacture method. On Russian SKS's, the parts are all either milled from billet or milled from forgings from what I an tell:
Gas block: Note the casting line and rough-cast surface under the sling loop:
Front sight block, note that the casting surface isn't totally machined away:
Gas block, opposite side - note that some surfaces still show rough cast marks:
Rear sight block: Note the rough cast marks around the pin:
Here we see that the recessed area just above the barrel on the rear sight block is not machined at all, just left as a rough cast surface:
Note the casting seam on the bayonet handle:
The receiver cover is machined almost everywhere, but the casting seams on the inside surfaces give it away as a casting:
At top of picture, note the machining didn't quite clear up all the casting surfaces:
MapleSugar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- On the loose from NIMH
Those are some good pictures, Claven!
Thanks for posting them!
I wonder if the late model factory 26 rifles used so many cast parts also?
Thanks for posting them!
I wonder if the late model factory 26 rifles used so many cast parts also?
Well, I think I solved another mystery. I finally got around the degreasing the "oil" bottle my rifle came with. While the rifle is probably unissued, the oil bottle has been used before it was gooped in cosmolene for storage. And interestingly enough, it did not have oil inside. It was about 1/4 filled with a solvent of some type - not unlike Hoppes No.9 in odour, but a little different. I suspect it may be alkaline based.
So perhaps more appropriate to call it a "solvent" bottle?
What's odd is that most other countries issued a 2 chamber oil bottle with both oil and alkaline solvent inside. The Chinese appear to have primarily issued a single bottle and in my case, I can verify it held solvent.
I wonder if they issued a second bottle with the rifles for oil, or if the idea was that the solvent would clean the rifle and provide enough basic lube for the gun to function? After all, the SKS doesn't need very much lubricant to run reliably. Most of he working parts are better left dry.
Interesting...
I've had a good many Chinese SKS's, many came to me like this one in the original box, but this is the first I've gotten with a non-plastic bottle and definitely the first one where the bottle was not empty.
So perhaps more appropriate to call it a "solvent" bottle?
What's odd is that most other countries issued a 2 chamber oil bottle with both oil and alkaline solvent inside. The Chinese appear to have primarily issued a single bottle and in my case, I can verify it held solvent.
I wonder if they issued a second bottle with the rifles for oil, or if the idea was that the solvent would clean the rifle and provide enough basic lube for the gun to function? After all, the SKS doesn't need very much lubricant to run reliably. Most of he working parts are better left dry.
Interesting...
I've had a good many Chinese SKS's, many came to me like this one in the original box, but this is the first I've gotten with a non-plastic bottle and definitely the first one where the bottle was not empty.
Those are some good pictures, Claven!
Thanks for posting them!
I wonder if the late model factory 26 rifles used so many cast parts also?
Good question?
I've never personally had an all-stamped receiver SKS, but I wonder if all the same parts on it are stamped or cast, or if it used some milled internals?
In any event, this thread has a good beginning for an FAQ on what can typically be different in a run-of-the mills Chinese SKS vs. a milled european made example.
this one looks exactly the same as the one I picked up from Frontier at the Calgary gun show (mines also a 625)
other than the serial, pics could be of mine
unrelated but relevant (I know there was a thread somewhere but I cant find it) Princess Auto Calgary North has 4 of those chinese military surplus ammo aprons, picked up a couple today
other than the serial, pics could be of mine
unrelated but relevant (I know there was a thread somewhere but I cant find it) Princess Auto Calgary North has 4 of those chinese military surplus ammo aprons, picked up a couple today
MapleSugar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- On the loose from NIMH
Here's a pic of the "solvent" bottle in question, no markings:
It looks nicer than the green plastic ones I got with my rifles, years ago.
It's entirely possible it was put together FOR people in a jungle with leaves on their feet - these may well have been made as aid guns for Viet Nam
I doubt that. No factory that I know of has turned up in Vietnam capture collections other than Factory 26 guns.
More likely these ones were made later for the PLA, after the chinese started experimenting on how expediently they could make and SKS without adversely affecting good function.
More likely these ones were made later for the PLA, after the chinese started experimenting on how expediently they could make and SKS without adversely affecting good function.
thats not correct , factory M21 No. has been captured.
no, the SKS has been active in the PLA right up to 1981 , there after as a second line weapon.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
I'll have to ask my buddy which factory his VN captured SKS is from.
Ok, just finished comparing this threaded factory 625 to one of the pinned factory 306's floating about. As far as I have seen, the pinned and threaded factory 306's seem to be identical aside from method of barrel attachment and so far the few 625's I've seen were all configured identically. As a note, wherever I say "forged", the part could also be possibly machined from billet - it's impossible to tell.
First, the 306 (unissued, non-refurb):
Barrel: pinned.
Stock: side-swivel, serial numbered, dark-ish wood, one small wood repair along the mag well, looks like from original manufacture.
Bayonet: Spike with forged and milled catch.
Front sight assembly: forged and milled.
Gas block: Cast and machined.
Rear sight base: forged and milled.
Bolt: no lightening cut, dull steel color.
Receiver cover: forged and milled.
Bolt stop: forged and milled.
Magazine follower: stamped.
Trigger assembly: stamped.
Magazine catch: cast.
sling swivel base: stamped.
Safety: non-serrated.
Recoil Spring Retainer: stamped.
Gas tube ferule: stamped.
Serial number font: seriffed.
Rollstamp: Triangle-code, Type56 characters, serial number.
Oil bottle shipped with rifle: Green plastic, no markings.
Sling shipped with rifle: web, spring-coil fasteners.
Now the Factory 625 (unissued, non-refurb):
Barrel: threaded, short stub.
Stock: side-swivel, serial numbered, dark-ish wood.
Bayonet: Spike with cast and knurled catch.
Front sight assembly: cast and machined.
Gas block: Cast and machined.
Rear sight base: sand cast and machined.
Bolt: no lightening cut, semi-bright matte steel color.
Receiver cover: cast and machined.
Bolt stop: stamped.
Magazine follower: stamped.
Trigger assembly: stamped.
Magazine catch: forged and milled.
sling swivel base: stamped.
Safety: non-serrated.
Recoil Spring Retainer: stamped.
Gas tube ferule: stamped.
Serial number font: sans-serif.
Rollstamp: Triangle-code, serial number.
Oil bottle shipped with rifle: zinc plated steel, no markings.
Sling shipped with rifle: web, spring-coil fasteners.
Oddly, as you can see both rifles had some surprises. I was surprised to see the roughly cast mag catch on the 306 while the predominantly cast 625 had a much nicer milled catch. It's also interesting to not that the 625, while having a threaded barrel, displays far more manufacturing shortcuts and is probably much later production, though of course we can't assign reliable date to guns from either of these factories.
My verdict is that for the shooter the Factory 306 guns seem to be of superior manufacture compared to the 625 guns. More parts are milled and the fit and finish is better. For the collector, however, the factory 625 has far more uncommon parts variations and may well be the better choice compared to the typical 'vanilla' Chinese SKS.
First, the 306 (unissued, non-refurb):
Barrel: pinned.
Stock: side-swivel, serial numbered, dark-ish wood, one small wood repair along the mag well, looks like from original manufacture.
Bayonet: Spike with forged and milled catch.
Front sight assembly: forged and milled.
Gas block: Cast and machined.
Rear sight base: forged and milled.
Bolt: no lightening cut, dull steel color.
Receiver cover: forged and milled.
Bolt stop: forged and milled.
Magazine follower: stamped.
Trigger assembly: stamped.
Magazine catch: cast.
sling swivel base: stamped.
Safety: non-serrated.
Recoil Spring Retainer: stamped.
Gas tube ferule: stamped.
Serial number font: seriffed.
Rollstamp: Triangle-code, Type56 characters, serial number.
Oil bottle shipped with rifle: Green plastic, no markings.
Sling shipped with rifle: web, spring-coil fasteners.
Now the Factory 625 (unissued, non-refurb):
Barrel: threaded, short stub.
Stock: side-swivel, serial numbered, dark-ish wood.
Bayonet: Spike with cast and knurled catch.
Front sight assembly: cast and machined.
Gas block: Cast and machined.
Rear sight base: sand cast and machined.
Bolt: no lightening cut, semi-bright matte steel color.
Receiver cover: cast and machined.
Bolt stop: stamped.
Magazine follower: stamped.
Trigger assembly: stamped.
Magazine catch: forged and milled.
sling swivel base: stamped.
Safety: non-serrated.
Recoil Spring Retainer: stamped.
Gas tube ferule: stamped.
Serial number font: sans-serif.
Rollstamp: Triangle-code, serial number.
Oil bottle shipped with rifle: zinc plated steel, no markings.
Sling shipped with rifle: web, spring-coil fasteners.
Oddly, as you can see both rifles had some surprises. I was surprised to see the roughly cast mag catch on the 306 while the predominantly cast 625 had a much nicer milled catch. It's also interesting to not that the 625, while having a threaded barrel, displays far more manufacturing shortcuts and is probably much later production, though of course we can't assign reliable date to guns from either of these factories.
My verdict is that for the shooter the Factory 306 guns seem to be of superior manufacture compared to the 625 guns. More parts are milled and the fit and finish is better. For the collector, however, the factory 625 has far more uncommon parts variations and may well be the better choice compared to the typical 'vanilla' Chinese SKS.
