effective range for lighter bullets in .223??

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Jeromeo

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I did a search and couldn't really find an answer. I'd like to avoid the BS answers if at all possible. So you 900 meter 1.5" group shooters, don't bother posting.

I've only had the chance of shooting my 223 with a 50 gr. V-max out to 275 yards on gophers. I'd like to know what the effective range for 50-55 grain bullets is before they start tumbling. My rifle has a 1 in 12" twist rate so I can't exactly go heavier than 60 gr.
The rifle shoots extremely well with my handloads so the load development is done. I just want to know from the longer range shooters what the effective range is assuming winds are very calm :D
 
You don't really need to worry about the lighter bullets tumbling- they just start to run out of steam. When that happens, they start dropping quite quickly (but predictably) and the wind starts to push them around, again predictably, but it's harder to read the wind, then it is to get an accurate range reading. If you keep good notes and use a range finder, you might be surprised just how far out you can make hits w/ the light bullets, especially when the wind is calm. Gophers are pretty small, but I'd say you could expect the rifle/bullet to do the job to 500yrds. Easy? NO, but not futile either.
 
There are dozens of accurate on-line ballistic calculators out there. Plug in your velocity, BC etc. and you will have a good idea what your trajectories will be, and their velocities. When the bullet slows down to sub-sonic speeds (Roughly 1100 fps) , it will likely start to destabilize and all bets are off.

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I am a 900M shooter. Sorry if my answer is 'BS'....
 
Mysticplayer will answer your questions. I've personally been out shooting with him and his 223 out to just shy of 1500yards. Although he was maxed out on elevation and was using his Mildots. But he still did it.
 
At 500m with 50-53g and 1/12 I have experienced a good deal of horizontal stringing caused by the wind, opening groups up over 1.5 moa. Realistically, for me at least, to consistently hit gopher sized targets I am looking at 300-350m max. The wind never stops here in the Maritimes.
 
the limiting factor is the shooter. Use a balistics calculator plug in the values. The limiting factor is how close you think you can estimate the wind speed. If you think you can estimate wind within 5 miles an hour then look at the calculator and see how far that pushes the bullet at various ranges to determine max range. If your last name is kenstral you could plug in a lower value for windspeed and see where that pushes your bullet.
 
I've shot many gophers when I lived in Calgary and if you are hitting them at 275 yds with 50 gr bullets you are pretty well maxed out {gophers are small targets past 300]
I was shooting a 22br on gophers with 55 vmax bullets at 3600fps and If I could have hit one at 500yds it would have killed it ,same goes for your 223 .
 
ron hilchey said:
At 500m with 50-53g and 1/12 I have experienced a good deal of horizontal stringing caused by the wind, opening groups up over 1.5 moa. Realistically, for me at least, to consistently hit gopher sized targets I am looking at 300-350m max. The wind never stops here in the Maritimes.
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Ohh goodness no, I am not trying to shoot gophers at 500 yards. The longest shot I've taken on a gopher this year was ranged at 275 yards this year. It took me two shots to hit him (first one was low). Just trying to see what the consensus is, in case I want start some competitive shooting. I'm just trying to roughly see how far these bullets will go before they destabilize. My range, at the moment doesn't go out to 500 yards yet so I can't exactly try it out right now.
Eventually I'll add to my collection and buy a target rifle with a faster twist rate.

This was my best 3 shot group @ 100 yards and i was darn proud of it.
19531_305206901200_509301200_4976189_2974734_n.jpg


Can I "do it all day long"?? Not necessarily, but the groups are still pretty small.


I am absolutely in love with this rifle and am very thrilled with the out of the box accuracy. Too bad it didn't come with a faster twist rate. Here's one more pic.

23635_389259496200_509301200_5309027_2205065_n.jpg
 
Because I was behind the spotting scope watching the trace, I can say the 55gr Vmax WILL happily fly to 1035yds and likely further.

Shot from a Wby Vanguard HB so assume a 12 twist. I figured, from past experience, this bullet would crap out around 600yds so we plinked away at rocks and it did great.

Well, then 800yds cause that's just silly....wouldn't want to be standing there.

So out to the GOPHER. Conditions were nice with light winds. given the impacts, I would say that a large pizza box was in big trouble that far out.

The bullet will make the trip but it will get bounced around severely if there is any wind. Since it has already gone subsonic, distance is no longer an issue - scope elevation is.

I much prefer the heavy 22cals and do most of my LR plinking using 80gr AMax or Bergers from my 223. The Amax will definitely go 1 mile - it is such a pain to shoot that far out, that I rather use something else (will be a 7RM and 180gr Bergers in the not too distant future).

However, out to 1400ish yds, it is a very nice, cheap option.

And yes, on a calm morning or with steady light winds, hitting a gopher from 1000yds to 1 mile with a 80gr Amx and a 223 IS possible.

You can get sub MOA accuracy out that far. Just bring out some flags and ammo.

Jerry
 
I've shot Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tips at 600 yards from a .223 and had a lot of fun doing it. Was a 10# rifle, with a 15X scope and a bipod; could follow my *own* bullet trace into the target.

As Matt said, don't worry about the bullets tumbling.
 
Jeromeo said:
I'd like to know what the effective range for 50-55 grain bullets is before they start tumbling. My rifle has a 1 in 12" twist rate so I can't exactly go heavier than 60 gr.
The rifle shoots extremely well with my handloads so the load development is done. I just want to know from the longer range shooters what the effective range is assuming winds are very calm :D
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knockturnal said:
Mysticplayer will answer your questions. I've personally been out shooting with him and his 223 out to just shy of 1500yards. Although he was maxed out on elevation and was using his Mildots. But he still did it.
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Jerry uses 75grn bullets out to those distances, not 50-55grn. Not that it cannot be done but conditions will play a vital role moreso than with the heavier bullets.

Realistically, if your looking into competitions then 300m would probably be your max with those bullets and the .223 case, 500 would be pushing it unless you can read the wind like no ones business.
 
I'd like to know what the effective range for 50-55 grain bullets is before they start tumbling.

I'm just trying to roughly see how far these bullets will go before they destabilize.
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A bullet that starts out stable will not suddenly become unstable. In fact bullet flight stability increases with distance because the velocity drops off faster than the rotational speed. So the answer to your question is .... never.

When a bullet crosses the sonic barrier it may experience some buffeting which can reduce accuracy after that point but I have never seen any evidence that the bullet actually becomes unstable and tumbles.
 
Suputin, bullets like the Sierra 30cal 168gr MK are a great way to showcase the difference between supersonic and subsonic aerodymanics and balance.

This is a well know bullet that doesn't like going subsonic and has some inherent problems in the design causing it to tumble.

Other bullets happily go subsonic and never miss a beat. The easiest way for me to figure this out is just launch them way out there.

some will, some will not and real world shooting just keeps the math to a min :)

You will find Bryan Litz new book a great read.

Jerry
 
welll.....

As per distance, Jerry will vouch for my .22-250AI at summerland a couple of years ago...... Reached out to 1123 yrds with decent accuracy. 1:14 bbl twist pac-nor on a barnard action from ATRS. Pushing the 55gr nosler at 4050fps......In fact Glock-a-maniac shot 10 shots at the "gopher" and I can't remember the distance, Jerry might tho, but was close to or past 1000 yrds, and had confirmed 8 hits out a 10.


But then again, the stars, moon AND jupiter were aligned that day......
:cool:
 
Jeromeo said:
This was my best 3 shot group @ 100 yards and i was darn proud of it.
19531_305206901200_509301200_4976189_2974734_n.jpg


Can I "do it all day long"?? Not necessarily, but the groups are still pretty small.
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Good shooting Jeromeo, and I find your honesty about your grouping refreshing. Much too often you'll get a member posting the same image of his 3-shot cloverleaf...and claiming he does this offhand from a bone-stock Remchester all day :rolleyes:
 
At the US F-Class Nationals we had a shooter who was going subsonic before the target and the bullet was going through as a bullet should (read round hole) but he was shooting like lightning (never hitting the same place twice).

It was the oddest thing to have a bullet come overhead with no sonic crack, you could hear it ending behind the butts and you would have sworn it had gone into the berm behind us.
 
Suputin, bullets like the Sierra 30cal 168gr MK are a great way to showcase the difference between supersonic and subsonic aerodymanics and balance.

This is a well know bullet that doesn't like going subsonic and has some inherent problems in the design causing it to tumble.
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Agreed, I have played with such bullets in the subsonic realm and they are very difficult to stabilize cause all the weight is at the back end. However that bullet is VERY different from a typical 55gr .224" bullet which will be much better balanced.

Other bullets happily go subsonic and never miss a beat. The easiest way for me to figure this out is just launch them way out there.
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There is also a big difference between a bullet that starts out subsonic and a bullet that starts out at Mach 3 and then goes subsonic. The rotational rate of the two is completely different.
 
We shoot 55 and 62 grainers out of AR's out to 500m with pretty decent accuracy.A bolt gun would make them 10x more accurate.Shouldn't be any problem out to at least that far with minimal experience.
 
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