Identify old muzzleloader

gerardjohnson

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A friend has an old muzzleloader with what he believes is a homemade stock. He would like to restore it so would like to identify it. It has "M N le St. Etienne" on the back of the hammer. The barrel is 31" long but may have been shortened. It mast likely came from the Lunenburg NS area. I know this isn't much to go on but any help will be appreciated.
 
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I forgot to mention that it's a percussion rifle. I asked the owner if it's rifled and to measure the bore size and will pass that info along when I get it. I have an e-mail with 2 photos of it but can't figure out how to forward them to the forum.
 
It is French. Join photobucket for free and it is very easy to list photographs on any board or forum. You'll get more help when posting a detailed description and pictures. Good Luck....................
 
The inscription M N le St. Etienne was on the back of the hammer, not on the barrel as I said earlier. It appears this in the person or company that made the lock.
 
Pictures would REALLY help to identify something such as this.

Your gun is an old French Army piece, likely from before the middle of the 19th Century. They had several models, most of them with back-action lockwork. That usually identifies a gun that was made new as a percussion (cap and ball) gun.

If you run into one with a standard front-action lock, you will find that a lot of them were cap-and-ball conversions of much earlier flintlocks, notably the Models 1763 and 1777, huge numbers of which were made for the Napoleonic Wars.

Quite a number of French muskets came to North America during the American Civil War, as both sides needed something that would go 'bang!'. Right after the War, these non-standard guns were sold off in large numbers, very cheaply. More of the same were sold off, very cheaply, through a number of outlets. The Adolf Frank catalogue of 1911 shows several types being sold from Hamburg, all at very low prices. Bannerman's in New York had some of these as late as the 1950s, believe it or not!

A lot of these went to places where people didn't have a lot of money to buy a new gun. Muzzle-loading guns still were in use by old-timers when I lived on Fogo Island, NDB, Nfld in the middle 1970s. They were using mostly 10s and 8s and the odd 6-bore. A gun the size of yours would have been called a 'five-eighths gun' or a 'slack three-quarter'.

I have a three-quarter gun made in London with a half-stock from the factory, a proper fowler with a 46-inch barrel and a Government-style lock; it is obviously a 'prentice gun from the filing. It is an 11-bore. I also have a big three-quarter or a slack seven-eighths gun with a 56-inch barrel on a converted Third Model Brown Bess lock, stocked to the muzzle, something between a 10 and a 9-bore: rather impressive, to say the least.

You will find these on the East Coast sometimes with replaced stocks, often locally-made from Birch, which is awfully heavy but will do the trick. If it should be a full-military gun, it might be an idea to try to restore it. But if it has a Canadian-made stock, it obviously carries a lot of Canadian history with it. In a case such as this, I think I would leave it as it is because to restock it would take away from its Canadian past and would destroy a little more of OUR heritage.

These things are a BALL to shoot!

But do have fun.
 
Pictures added for OP

Musket20120and20220002.jpg

Musket20120and20220001-1.jpg
 
It is French. Join photobucket for free and it is very easy to list photographs on any board or forum. You'll get more help when posting a detailed description and pictures. Good Luck....................

Here are the photos that I got from our friend in NB via email....someone beat me to it i see...anyhow here are the lings to my photo bucket account
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/jacques1952/Musket1and2002.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/jacques1952/Musket1and2001.jpg
 
the french had a roughly .70 caliber rifle that was modified to become a cartridge rifle called the tabatierre. That rifle was in turn modified and extensively sold as the Zulu shotgun. Your gun appears to be a shortened version of the muzzle loading rifle.

cheers mooncoon
 
the french had a roughly .70 caliber rifle that was modified to become a cartridge rifle called the tabatierre. That rifle was in turn modified and extensively sold as the Zulu shotgun. Your gun appears to be a shortened version of the muzzle loading rifle.

cheers mooncoon

But it's .59 cal, not .70 cal. Could it still be a tabatierre?
 
From the side plate, it looks like a cut-down derivative of the Modèle 1842 / 1853 (the M/1853 was a smoothbore, the M/1853 T had "progressive rifling" a M 1857 had constant depth rifling). The barrel band seems original. Both the Model 1853 and 1857 were 17.8 mm caliber (0.70").
I can't see on the picture if it is fitted with a "monobloc" rear sight, if it have one, then, it's a M/1853/1857.
If it was first fitted with a barrel mounted rear sight, it can also be a "Fusil de la Commission de Vincennes, Modèle 1865". It is also known as "Fusil de la Comission de Vincennes" wich used the same lock.

If you remove the sideplate, you should see the model designation marked inside, below the spring. On the right side of the barrel, on the flat, just in front of the nipple, you should also find MI followed by the issue year (ex; 185X). The model designation was also stamped on the tang,

It seems it was modified to look like a "Mousqueton d'Artillerie, Modèle 1829 T bis" (wich was an artillery carbine, but with a 500mm barrel).

See here for some infos;
http://www.littlegun.be/arme francaise/collection fusils/a a collection fusils 1842 53 gb.htm
 
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