Ready for the 1st Time Reload...

A

aridan

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Finally, got myself the Aim 9mm 124gr RN, will be doing my very 1st batch. Anyone care to recommend a safe first-time recipe? I'm planning to use 3.8gr Titegroup at OAL = 1.10 for my Shadow.

Another thing: I'll be using a Lee factory crimp die, so do I drop the dummy round into the barrel & check OAL before or after factory crimp? How do I know if I'm headspacing it correctly?

TIA.
 
Do you have a set of calipers? Measure the bullet. Measure the case wall thickness at the mouth. Set your crimp so that you are barely crimping at all. You want the belling removed, and maybe .0005 crimp, if that. Case wall tension is what's keeping your bullet from setting back, not a crimp.

Plated bullets tend to fracture at the crimp if over crimped, resulting in the jacket shedding or peeling away causing flyers.

The case headspaces off the case mouth. Short of roll crimping, you won't affect headspacing while reloading.
 
I would also reccomend doing a ladder test, if you are just making a load for the first time how will you know which load works best for your pistol?

I also tailor my OAL for my pistol, usually its the chamber not the mag that limits you with pistols, unlike Rifles where you are usually limited by your Magwell.

In your case I would start with 10 rnds each of 2.9gr, 3.1gr & 3.3gr at a OAL of 1.100. That will give you 2-5 shot groups to see which load works best. Shoot off a rest to get the most accurate test results.

You will notice that the loads I have suggested are quite a bit lower than you have stated earlier..... That is because AIM projectiles are an electro-plated Cast bullet you need to use CAST BULLET LOAD DATA not jacketed bullet load data. IF you don't see any signs of over pressure or excessive leading/fouling you can then try a load just a bit higher..... If you start at 3.8gr like you want to you could have a bit more fouling than is healthy for your pistol. You may find that 3.8 will work just fine, but you really should work up to it.

Cheers!
 
notsorichguy said:
In your case I would start with 10 rnds each of 2.9gr, 3.1gr & 3.3gr at a OAL of 1.100. That will give you 2-5 shot groups to see which load works best. Shoot off a rest to get the most accurate test results.

You will notice that the loads I have suggested are quite a bit lower than you have stated earlier..... That is because AIM projectiles are an electro-plated Cast bullet you need to use CAST BULLET LOAD DATA not jacketed bullet load data.
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Now I'm puzzled. The guy at the store said 'use FMJ data' - the Aim looks like a CMJ, actually, there's no lead seen at the back. I see your point since electroplating deposits only about .004 - as opposed to 0.015 for FMJ, I'm just concerned about the bullet getting stuck in the barrel, LOL.

I ran a query at Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, the lowest they have for Titegroup is 3.6gr for 125gr LCN bullet.

Are you sure about 2.9 - 3.3gr ? Final answer? ;)

I'm also wondering why Factory Loads from S&B have OAL = 1.156 but most people recommend 1.10 - otherwise, rounds get stuck in the mag. Wouldn't the factory loads have the same problem with the mag? I've been using S&Bs in my Shadow with zero problems so far...

TIA.
 
I'm using the same bullets with the same powder and I run either 3.6 grains or 3.8 grains of Titegroup. My c.o.l. is shorter than what you're wanting to run, something about the bullets profile (in my situation and pistol) requires me to seat them deeper.

Just a thought. If you try the 2.9, 3.1, 3.3 grain loads, pay attention to the brass. If you're running under pressure you will see blackened cases and the ejected cases will not go as far as factory ammo. It might also make your pistol start jamming.

You won't know until you try though.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
You won't know until you try though.
Click to expand...

The reality is that you are not loading 9x19, but 9xAidrian. While the loading manuals provide a starting point, everyone has to experiment a bit at first.

For the price, I strongly recommend getting a chrony. It will give you a greater idea of where you are sitting than guesswork.
 
aridan said:
Now I'm puzzled. The guy at the store said 'use FMJ data' - the Aim looks like a CMJ, actually, there's no lead seen at the back. I see your point since electroplating deposits only about .004 - as opposed to 0.015 for FMJ, I'm just concerned about the bullet getting stuck in the barrel, LOL.

I ran a query at Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, the lowest they have for Titegroup is 3.6gr for 125gr LCN bullet.

Are you sure about 2.9 - 3.3gr ? Final answer? ;)

I'm also wondering why Factory Loads from S&B have OAL = 1.156 but most people recommend 1.10 - otherwise, rounds get stuck in the mag. Wouldn't the factory loads have the same problem with the mag? I've been using S&Bs in my Shadow with zero problems so far...

TIA.
Click to expand...

I got the load data I listed from the 48th Lyman manual....... Hogdons web site is probably more up to date than my old(ish) manual.

If you have 1gr of powder in your case I don't belive you will get a stuck bullet. The primer alone will push it half way down the barrel in a 4.25" pistol..... ask me how I know :eek: ...... I also did some testing with my M&P 9 with titegroup, I found that 2.6gr of powder would still run the slide, about a 5' group at 25yrds, but it did cycle the action.

If you go to Aim's web site (triple w, aimprojectiles dot com) they tell you to use cast bullet load info when making loads.

Have fun, be safe!

Cheers!
 
Guys, big thanks! At this point, I can use all the help I can get.

I managed to load 30 rounds - yep, that's all, 10 of each of 3.2gr, 3.4gr, and 3.6gr. I was triple-checking each step/die/etc. but still managed to screw up, I think:

1. Once I settled on OAL = 1.10 - or so I thought - I see that my OAL is anywhere from 1.084 to 1.102. Is this bad, or is it simply because I'm using a regular caliper, so there's no way of placing the caliper jaws at exactly the same spot every time? I hope it is just a measurement error, not a setup problem. At any rate, all the rounds I loaded fall out of the barrel - some with a little nudge. :redface: I find it odd that my seater die adjustment (I use Hornady dies) is still easy to move around, even though the lock nut on the seater stem is screwed in as much as possible - even the rubber grommet is sort of bulging out...

2. I don't seem to be able to dial my powder measure in a repeatable fashion. I have a pistol rotor with a micrometer insert so it must be my error. I re-checked like 10 times then loaded 10 rounds with 3.0gr - only to find out that at the end I was throwing 3.2gr. Sometimes, a small adjustment would change the charge by a whopping 2gr. I did 3.4gr next, then dialed the 3.2 setting to go back, but it doesn't seem to repeat well. At the end, I settled at doing a 'double tap' at the bottom of the stroke, to make all the grains fall down, but there's still a fair bit of variance. Is Titegroup considered to be a noob-friendly powder? :confused:

I'm going to try these rounds out tomorrow, wish me luck!
 
I use a turret press with the auto disc powder set up, and for me Titegroup seems to meter fairly consistent. I'm not familiar with Hornady dies....is there a little set screw on the ring that would hold it snug to the die body?
 
saskgunowner101 said:
I use a turret press with the auto disc powder set up, and for me Titegroup seems to meter fairly consistent. I'm not familiar with Hornady dies....is there a little set screw on the ring that would hold it snug to the die body?
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No setscrew, just a locknut with a rubber washer underneath. I make it snug-tight, but then notice the rubber washer being squashed on one side after I run the round through it for the first time.

I checked a few ammosmith videos: he sets up his sizing die on a fully sized but NOT flared (expanded) case - I did mine on a flared one. Don't know if it makes a difference, I'm trying not to crimp while sizing since I've got a Lee Factory Crimp die.

I'll do a full report after firing my rounds today.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
I'm not familiar with Hornady dies....is there a little set screw on the ring that would hold it snug to the die body?
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Hornady has great lock rings. They are a split ring with a cross-bolt and clamp to the die body. They also have a wrench flat.

All in all they clamp-up easily and tenaciously, then release easily - which is more than any of the set-screw-pressing-on-die-body designs can say.

86950.jpg
 
acrashb said:
Hornady has great lock rings. They are a split ring with a cross-bolt and clamp to the die body. They also have a wrench flat.
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Agreed. But, in case of the seating die, it only controls the crimp, not the seating depth.

Being a noob reloader, I must have been scared of my own shadow (pun intended). Today I tried the ammo I made for the first time, with 3.0, 3.2 & 3.4gr of Titegroup. Nothing horrible happened: the gun fired & ejected each round as expected. Still, I will revisit my die setup & make adjustments, and learn more about the powder measure until I get repeatable loads.

The 3.0gr felt like a .22, LOL. The 3.2 and 3.4 were marginally better. It seemed like most of the ejected cases just barely came out. Some did so better than others, which makes me believe that my powder loads and/or OAL are inconsistent within each batch.

Even the 3.4gr felt like nothing, compared to factory S&B 115gr rounds. But, I saw no difference in accuracy at 7-10 yards. Should I? I thought hotter loads are more accurate, is that true?

Another thing: my fired brass is really dirty, much worth even than factory S&Bs. I went with Titegroup to have clean ammo. Could adding more powder solve this problem?

Overall, I feel much relieved, now that my 1st time episode is over. Thanks for all the help, guys!
 
aridan said:
But, I saw no difference in accuracy at 7-10 yards. Should I? I thought hotter loads are more accurate, is that true?
[...]
Another thing: my fired brass is really dirty, much worth even than factory S&Bs. I went with Titegroup to have clean ammo. Could adding more powder solve this problem?
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1) hotter / softer loads have no bearing on accuracy. None. As for accuracy at 7-10 yards with a handgun, you won't see any difference anyway. Take it to 25, rest the gun on a bag, and use good technique. You might see a difference one way or the other with varying loads.

2) the "titegroup stain" is unavoidable, but it may lessen with higher charges. Its "clean" in the sense of very low ejecta and a full powder burn (little gunk to go into your gun), but the brass will be stained on the outside. Don't worry about discoloured brass as long as the gun's internals stay relatively clean, which they will with this powder.
 
acrashb said:
the "titegroup stain" is unavoidable, but it may lessen with higher charges. Its "clean" in the sense of very low ejecta and a full powder burn (little gunk to go into your gun), but the brass will be stained on the outside. Don't worry about discoloured brass as long as the gun's internals stay relatively clean, which they will with this powder.
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Thanks for clarifying that. I was comparing the insides of fired brass, the ones I loaded are almost pitch-black. I see some guys' fired cases on the inside look like the've been through a tumbler - and I want the same, LOL.

I'm wondering: should I get a chronograph? I don't compete so do I even need one? Looks like a cool toy, but I could spend $150 or so elsewhere.
 
aridan said:
I'm wondering: should I get a chronograph? I don't compete so do I even need one? Looks like a cool toy, but I could spend $150 or so elsewhere.
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Cool toy indeed, but for casual handgun as long as your load is within book bounds and works reliably in your gun, I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing to be gained.
 
I used the same bullet successfully on top of 4.2gr Titegroup or 4.8gr Unique (the new formulation).
Chronoed at 1120fps and 1140fps respectively
1.12"oal, light crimp from the bullet seating die.

Unique has the advantage of spilling over on double charges. Titegroup... not so much (I was able to seat a bullet on 9gr!!!!).
 
acrashb said:
Cool toy indeed, but for casual handgun as long as your load is within book bounds and works reliably in your gun, I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing to be gained.
Click to expand...

And that theory ####s the bed the first time you fail the chrony at a match. Casual target shooting is swell, but if you shoot IPSC, you need to know your PF.
 
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