- Location
- Virden, MB
.263 is super tight. wow.
More BR ####
- Thread starter Obtunded
- Start date
What are most guys running for a reamer spec?
I was thinking minimum spec, no turn, zero headspace, with the reamer cut to a seated 105 (hunting) Berger, along with matching lead angles?
Thanks in advance.
The 6mm Br is one fantastic case. Short range Benchrest is still dominated by the 6mmPPC and it appears this will not change, but the BR is better at longer ranges. It is best as a single shot.. reliable feeding is a problem.
I should have bought another barrel from Ian when I was in Kamloops.. he had them on the table and I kicked myself for not getting one before I left...
I have a minimum no neck turn reamer for Lapua brass (the only brass to use).. I forget but I think it cuts a .271 or .272 neck and a short throat for bullets up to 75 grain. A longer throat can be cut to match supplied dummy round. I can also cut a tight neck chamber.
I also bushed the 700 firing pin hole and turned the firing pin tip down to match.
X-fan
the only thing I would do different is go to a 8 twist as I did not with my first barrel. I would also have my own reamer cut for a 269 neck just to clean up the brass. They shoot great as no turn necks but I like the idea of cleaning them up.
Otherwise they are fine as are.
CBY
You are right Cycbb I have strayed from the good path.....Hear my shooters lament.
Our father (Six Be-Are)....
I have sinned and strayed from thine X-ring.
I shall rebarrel and shoot thee more.
Give me the grace to smite thine ugly Savages.
And may thine bugholes shine upon thee.
Amen.
Any reamer spec worth consideration?
If you were to redo your current 6br what would you do differently?
Thanks for the input.
the only thing I would do different is go to a 8 twist as I did not with my first barrel. I would also have my own reamer cut for a 269 neck just to clean up the brass. They shoot great as no turn necks but I like the idea of cleaning them up.
Otherwise they are fine as are.
CBY
lapua brass is damned fine. The diameter of a Lapua case with a Berger (or any true .2430" bullet) is .271" This means that if you simply clean up the neck, which is all you need to do, you will end up with 2-3 thou clearance with a .272 no-tun neck chamber and this will work very well. I have shot non-turned brass in a .272 chamber regularly and had no problems whatsoever.
.269 means you must remove at least 3 - 4 thou of material (between each side) with turning.
I completely agree that an 8" twist is the magic formula. Be careful with the length of throat if using the new berger VLD's. My 1500 round gun, throated for old Bergers will not allow me to seat in the case and jam into the lands with the new wadcutters they're making as 6mm "VLD's"
This photo shows some brand new brass from the same box. I have my neck turner set to remove less than a thou, to simply even things out. The case on the left is un-turned. The middle cases show how cleaning them up helps even them up, and the one on the right - same cutter depth - ended up being turned around its entire cicumfrence.
.
Scotty B told me you had a reamer Dennis, but wasn't sure what the specs were on it.
I want a no turn neck or even better one that allows me to clean up the brass with a one thou neck turn pass (what do you think)?...Not sure about the rest of the details.
Going to try F-class so I want an 8 twist for the longer bullets.
Single shot.
Lapua brass.
Thinking of running a Barnard/2oz Jewel on this one.
By the time I dig up an action, recoil lug and whatever, then you get blueprinted like I will want it there wont be much of a savings.
Thinking of trying one of Ian's F-Class stocks....Once he gets back in operation.
Are the Redding (bushing) Comp dies alright or should I look at a custom fit sizer? I don't know if the dread donut is a concern or not.
Called you to discuss the project, but the message said you were in rest mode.
Enjoy your time off!
I want a no turn neck or even better one that allows me to clean up the brass with a one thou neck turn pass (what do you think)?...Not sure about the rest of the details.
Going to try F-class so I want an 8 twist for the longer bullets.
Single shot.
Lapua brass.
Thinking of running a Barnard/2oz Jewel on this one.
By the time I dig up an action, recoil lug and whatever, then you get blueprinted like I will want it there wont be much of a savings.
Thinking of trying one of Ian's F-Class stocks....Once he gets back in operation.
Are the Redding (bushing) Comp dies alright or should I look at a custom fit sizer? I don't know if the dread donut is a concern or not.
Called you to discuss the project, but the message said you were in rest mode.
Enjoy your time off!
Looks like I should have waited a bit longer before posting!
Few more questions.
-With the current Berger shuffle I was considering a few other stand in bullets.
-How much accuracy is the 107 SMK going to cost me?
-Where does the 105 AMAX sit accuracy wise?
-I believe 22 pounds is max weight for F-Class?...What is the heaviest I can go and still shoot heavy bench (100 yard)?
Thanks.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
Heavy Varmint (BR) is 13.5#, so a pretty big gulf between that and F/Open's 22 pounds. Thousand yard BR is 18.5# I think. In retrospect, it would have been nice if F/Open's weight limit had been set to 18.5# or so; not very practical to change it now though.
Dennis in the photo of that bolt you worked, is that the factory-sized ejector, or did you make that bigger?
Dennis in the photo of that bolt you worked, is that the factory-sized ejector, or did you make that bigger?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Obtunded, great pics of the brass and nice to have a graphic to show when asked, "how much to clean up the necks?"
As others in the SR BR world have shown, pretty much all brass can benefit from a clean up of the necks. You are not removing much material at all but enough to even out any high spots. On some cases, you will take off enough so the entire neck has been touched.
I have found that hogging off alot of material actually makes the necks unstable. Not that they are thinner but cutting the alloy doesn't seem to help it at all. No science just an observation.
For those who are looking for the best in consistency, this light cut of the necks is a good thing ESPECIALLY if planning to use bushing dies.
having necks vary a thou or so at different spots can translate to tight spots INSIDE the neck after sizing.
Does this mean big massive groups and flyers? NO, but if going to all this effort and expense to set up the best shooting rig, a few minutes with a good outside neck turner will not hurt.
I have had very tight neck chambers and they work. For F class, I prefer a bit more room just in case I have to shoot in the rain or a schnick of dust gets on my ammo.
Shooting prone is not as sterile as off a covered bench.
With a BR type tight neck, a bullet will not go into the necks on a fired case. The brass spring back is more then the gap in the chamber. Feel like the neck has been lightly sized.
For my F class chambers, I like the bullet to be a slip fit in a fired cases. It will slide into the neck with little to no finger pressure but not rattle around as you might get from cases fired in a factory chamber.
When sizing, you can feel the necks give a bit.
Talk to your gunsmith and check your brass and die dimensions. Set the chamber to the level of clearance you feel is best.
As long as the throat is set properly for the bullet, the size of the neck in the chamber really only determines how much sizing you need after the case is fired. It has little effect on the accuracy of the gun.
For the question on the accuracy difference going to another brand of bullet?
Depends on the lot. Unfortunately, all manf have a range of acceptable tolerances in their manf. Some lots are spot on, others way off.
Companies like Berger and Lapua tend to have tighter QC. Hornady and Sierra can be more generous on what they consider ok.
I am not saying hornady or sierra are not good bullets. I shoot ALOT of hornady bullets and they work very well. BUT if the QC is more lax, you could get a few 'bad' bullets in a box.
That is not so good on target...
I refuse to sort bullets.
Jerry
As others in the SR BR world have shown, pretty much all brass can benefit from a clean up of the necks. You are not removing much material at all but enough to even out any high spots. On some cases, you will take off enough so the entire neck has been touched.
I have found that hogging off alot of material actually makes the necks unstable. Not that they are thinner but cutting the alloy doesn't seem to help it at all. No science just an observation.
For those who are looking for the best in consistency, this light cut of the necks is a good thing ESPECIALLY if planning to use bushing dies.
having necks vary a thou or so at different spots can translate to tight spots INSIDE the neck after sizing.
Does this mean big massive groups and flyers? NO, but if going to all this effort and expense to set up the best shooting rig, a few minutes with a good outside neck turner will not hurt.
I have had very tight neck chambers and they work. For F class, I prefer a bit more room just in case I have to shoot in the rain or a schnick of dust gets on my ammo.
Shooting prone is not as sterile as off a covered bench.
With a BR type tight neck, a bullet will not go into the necks on a fired case. The brass spring back is more then the gap in the chamber. Feel like the neck has been lightly sized.
For my F class chambers, I like the bullet to be a slip fit in a fired cases. It will slide into the neck with little to no finger pressure but not rattle around as you might get from cases fired in a factory chamber.
When sizing, you can feel the necks give a bit.
Talk to your gunsmith and check your brass and die dimensions. Set the chamber to the level of clearance you feel is best.
As long as the throat is set properly for the bullet, the size of the neck in the chamber really only determines how much sizing you need after the case is fired. It has little effect on the accuracy of the gun.
For the question on the accuracy difference going to another brand of bullet?
Depends on the lot. Unfortunately, all manf have a range of acceptable tolerances in their manf. Some lots are spot on, others way off.
Companies like Berger and Lapua tend to have tighter QC. Hornady and Sierra can be more generous on what they consider ok.
I am not saying hornady or sierra are not good bullets. I shoot ALOT of hornady bullets and they work very well. BUT if the QC is more lax, you could get a few 'bad' bullets in a box.
That is not so good on target...
I refuse to sort bullets.
Jerry
FWIW, I run all my 6BR brass through a .243 expander mandrel before seating, this brings neck tension to a minimum (you are using only the spring-back of the brass) and also tends to mitigate any occult irregularities with neck thickness by moving it to the outside. All brass flows when fired, and even the best turning job will show irregularities after a few firings.
The problem with this method I there is no way you could use Lapua or Nosler competition Bullets with it. They are undersized and just fall into the cases.
I have actually found that I have achieved the best accuracy in everything, with between 2 and 3 thou neck clearance. The BR tends to pressure-up if the chamber clearance is too tight, and this is where inconsistencies in neck tension really show in results. I anneal after every firing now, so it may change that, but I am personally not an advocate of zero-clearance necks.
As to .263 being "tight", It isn't. It is only "Thin"
The problem with this method I there is no way you could use Lapua or Nosler competition Bullets with it. They are undersized and just fall into the cases.
I have actually found that I have achieved the best accuracy in everything, with between 2 and 3 thou neck clearance. The BR tends to pressure-up if the chamber clearance is too tight, and this is where inconsistencies in neck tension really show in results. I anneal after every firing now, so it may change that, but I am personally not an advocate of zero-clearance necks.
As to .263 being "tight", It isn't. It is only "Thin"
I basically decided I could not make my brass any worse. After dozens of firings, neck tension all over the place. I either fix that or throw them out, so I began effing around with annealing.
I tried the turntable method, I even built a pretty cool gizmo with a 12" saw blade and a barbeque motor. Getting them hot enough was the problem. I even bought a lead pot and tried dipping, but that just made a fricken mess of the cases.
I found I apply a propane torch with the inner blue flame 1 inch long and a quarter inch back from the neck. Apply heat until the flame beyond tuns totally pink. Time how long it takes and apply to each case in turn. They look like brand new lapua when I am done and you do not need to turn the cases in the flame.
Typically 13 seconds.
Try it... it REALLY works
I tried the turntable method, I even built a pretty cool gizmo with a 12" saw blade and a barbeque motor. Getting them hot enough was the problem. I even bought a lead pot and tried dipping, but that just made a fricken mess of the cases.
I found I apply a propane torch with the inner blue flame 1 inch long and a quarter inch back from the neck. Apply heat until the flame beyond tuns totally pink. Time how long it takes and apply to each case in turn. They look like brand new lapua when I am done and you do not need to turn the cases in the flame.
Typically 13 seconds.
Try it... it REALLY works
I air-cool them.
I tend to agree Dennis...Annealing after every firing is something I would have intuitively thought was unnecessary, however I have read of several top F-Class shooters that are doing this. So far I have not found a down-side, and it takes me so little time in the greater scheme of things.
And... for your amusement, today I was doing some load development in a 6BR with a new batch of Bergers I got from Jerry.
I started at the lands and went into the rifling in 5 thou increments. Here is 15 and 20 thou jam . These are 5 round groups at 178 meters shot off my back porch 20 minutes ago! (annealed brass)
I tend to agree Dennis...Annealing after every firing is something I would have intuitively thought was unnecessary, however I have read of several top F-Class shooters that are doing this. So far I have not found a down-side, and it takes me so little time in the greater scheme of things.
And... for your amusement, today I was doing some load development in a 6BR with a new batch of Bergers I got from Jerry.
I started at the lands and went into the rifling in 5 thou increments. Here is 15 and 20 thou jam . These are 5 round groups at 178 meters shot off my back porch 20 minutes ago! (annealed brass
)Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Sorry, have not heard anything at this time.
Hopefully, this new target VLD was not their next gen bullet.
Given the reasons for this target VLD, making a higher BC bullet just doesn't seem plausible.
The Hunting VLD is the ORIG J4 jacket which was what put Berger on the map. I am hopeful that this style of bullet continues to get developed cause it works so well in so many cals.
Nice shooting Ian. Looks like I need to roll the boxes down 2 flights of stairs
Jerry
