35 Whelen/358 Norma
- Thread starter Shakky
- Start date
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I've never actually had a 35 Whelen but a 'while' back, I did get the opportunity to shoot one. As I recall, the loads were with a 250gr bullet and at a velocity of 2400 f/sec. and recoil wasn't unpleasant.
A 358 Norma Magnum has been on my list of calibers to get and recently I acquired a nice one made by Husqvarna.
Prior to getting the rifle I picked up a number of boxes of Norma factory 250gr ammo and I 'think' the velocity is around 2800 f/sec. For a very rough comparison in the recoil from what I remember of the 35 Whelen and my 358 NM, I'd say it's sort of like the difference between a 308 Wnichester and a 300 WM. Keep in mind some of the difference you 'may' be able to attribute to the two different rifles. To get a better idea, I guess I could load some ammo to 35 Whelen velocities.
I'm looking forward to working up hand loads for the 358 NM but the few factory rounds I've put through it show promise
. Oh, are you looking for a set of dies?
A 358 Norma Magnum has been on my list of calibers to get and recently I acquired a nice one made by Husqvarna.
Prior to getting the rifle I picked up a number of boxes of Norma factory 250gr ammo and I 'think' the velocity is around 2800 f/sec. For a very rough comparison in the recoil from what I remember of the 35 Whelen and my 358 NM, I'd say it's sort of like the difference between a 308 Wnichester and a 300 WM. Keep in mind some of the difference you 'may' be able to attribute to the two different rifles. To get a better idea, I guess I could load some ammo to 35 Whelen velocities.
I'm looking forward to working up hand loads for the 358 NM but the few factory rounds I've put through it show promise
. Oh, are you looking for a set of dies?
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
As a quick personal opinion, I'd say 'probably' not. There's not much if anything around that a 358 NM will handle that your 35 Whelen could not.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
Really, what the 358 is going to give you is more range than the 35 Whelen. If you tend to shoot at longer ranges then the 358 is the ticket. If you're like most hunters, who shoot the bulk of their game around 100 yards, then the 35 Whelen will easily kill whatever you want, at noticeably less cost and recoil.
The extra powder will add more recoil, that's just physics. A hot-loaded Whelen can pack a wallop, don't get me wrong, but the Norma will always be just a little bit more. Okay, maybe a bit more than "a bit more", in terms of numbers shooting 250 grain bullets they would both be slightly higher recoiling than a .30-06 and a .300 WM firing 220's, respectively.
At least it's not a STA.
At least it's not a STA.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Sorry to hear about your rifle. When did the theft take place?
That's what I have in mind for the Husqvarna I recently acquired, IF I'm fortunate enough to get an LEH draw in area 5 in B.C. this year. What did you have for a rifle and any handloads you'd like to share? Oh, any factory brass you'd like to part with.
The Norma shoots a bunch flatter if that matters to you. For comparison my Norma with a 225TSX at a comfortable 2950 fps, zeroed +2 1/2" high at 100 yards, drops 18-20" at 400 yards. That's not out of a computer but tested on the range.
And you bet it kicks more than a Whelen. If you can handle a 300mag the Norma is not much worse. I find in my Norma that the 225 grainers at 2900 fps kick about like a 300 with 180's. The 250's at 2800 are another animal however, and do push you around a bit. It takes a bit of practice to be comfortable with that load.
And you bet it kicks more than a Whelen. If you can handle a 300mag the Norma is not much worse. I find in my Norma that the 225 grainers at 2900 fps kick about like a 300 with 180's. The 250's at 2800 are another animal however, and do push you around a bit. It takes a bit of practice to be comfortable with that load.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
That's just what I've recently picked up to test/try through mine. All things being equal and if I get my draw, that's what I hope to use on Mr. Moose.
73 grains of Ramshot Big Game is a subtle hint! Good old IMR 4350 will get you there though, along with a few others.
Oh yeah, don't expect to recover that bullet on something as small as a moose. If you want to recover bullets, you need a larger animal.
Good old IMR 4350 will get you there though, along with a few others.Oh yeah, don't expect to recover that bullet on something as small as a moose. If you want to recover bullets, you need a larger animal.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
73 grains of Ramshot Big Game is a subtle hint!
Oh yeah, don't expect to recover that bullet on something as small as a moose. If you want to recover bullets, you need a larger animal.
The gentleman I purchased the rifle from has suggested loads using IMR 4895 but 'good old IMR 4350' is one of my favorites so that's likely what I'll lead off with.
With what I've heard on the penetration capabilities of Barnes TTSX and/or TSX bullets, considering the caliber in question, I expect them to pass through on Moose. A lot depends on distance and shot angle but if very few 200gr Sierra SBT's out of a 308 NM at 200yds don't 'stay behind', I don't expect the Barnes 225gr out of a 358 NM to 'hang around' either.
Are you handloading? I am also packing a .35Whelen this spring for 'long' shots on black bears. It's a M-700 with 1.5-6X Vari-X III on it. I'm shooting Hornady 250gr IL handloads. I've got 'em doing about 2450fps MV.
The Whelen is in case I get a 200 yard-ish shot. If I can stalk in close I'll be using my .405Win.
Both myself and River Rat on here have used the 358 Norma Mag for the past 30+ years. While certainly not for the faint of heart, it is a very fine big game cartridge. You very quickly realize that there is quite a difference between a 250 gr bullet at 2500 (edited to correct velocity) and one at over 2800 fps, which is easily obtainable in the Nine Norma.
Garry's rifle is built on an '03 Springfield, weighs right at eight pounds all up with scope sling and mag full of ammo. It has more than 2000 round down the barrel, and still shoots under an inch at 100 yd. IIRC, neither of us have ever lost an animal with this cartridge.
I have sold two 358 Normas to guys on this board. Both of them have been very pleased with their rifles. I have often wondered why more guys don't rechamber or rebarrel to this truly great round.
Ted
Garry's rifle is built on an '03 Springfield, weighs right at eight pounds all up with scope sling and mag full of ammo. It has more than 2000 round down the barrel, and still shoots under an inch at 100 yd. IIRC, neither of us have ever lost an animal with this cartridge.
I have sold two 358 Normas to guys on this board. Both of them have been very pleased with their rifles. I have often wondered why more guys don't rechamber or rebarrel to this truly great round.
Ted
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Used to have a Whelen and didn't realize you could get 2600 fps with a 250 gr. bullet honestly. I loaded 55 grains of 4320 with a 225 gr. Nosler partition and the best I could get was 2550 in a 22 inch 700 Remington. The primers were starting to flatten out on me.
You are right, Mike. My mistake! Should read 2500 fps for the 35 Whelen. The velocity for the 358 Norma, however, is not a typo: 2800+ is easily obtainable with a number of different powders, which creates significantly more recoil in similar weight rifles.
Ted
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