Curiosity - polarized opinions on Glocks?

Aside from the 1911 and the K100, which out of the box duty pistols have a better overall consensus trigger pull? I don't think its the Beretta, the Sigs, the GP35, the CZ 75, the HKs, etc.

It's not fair to compare a modified or factory target oriented trigger with a stock Glock issue trigger, which out of the box is one of the least bad of the bunch and is more readily improved than most.

You MUST be kidding. Either that or you've been sipping the Glock'ade far too much and you're brainwashed.

I don't mind Glocks and shoot them fine. For what they are they are very nice guns. I'm just not partial to the looks or the trigger pull. But a better trigger than the rest? I guess it's a personal taste sort of deal but I'll happily take a stock version of all the guns you listed over a Glock or any other striker fired stock gun for trigger pull feel.

Glocks seem to be the "Harley Davidson" of the gun world. They shoot fine and do what they are designed to do. But those that ride/shoot them have a level of faith that is out of all proportion with the actual product. I know that I've met folks that think that a Harley is the only "real" motorcycle out there. I just have to shake my head in wonder at such things.

Don't get me wrong. I'm going to own a Harley at some point and there's even a slim chance that I may end up with a Glock at some point. But I sure won't suddenly think that these two items are Godsent and all others pale in the divine light of their magnificience.
 
Glock shooting

For the most part service pistol cartridges do not produce uncontrollable recoil. You won't have any problem from recoil or muzzle flip provided you hold the pistol correctly. If your grip on the gun is too low the muzzle will flip up. If the grip frame of the gun is too large for your hand, you will not hold it in line with your forearm and the recoil will kick the muzzle away from the palm of your hand resulting in 9:00 hits on your target, assuming you are right handed. The majority of handguns chambered for service pistol cartridges are pretty mild mannered, provided you understand that the smaller and lighter the gun you choose, the more recoil sensation you will experience.

I find myself in the camp that dislikes Glocks. The ones I've had the opportunity to shoot have had atrocious triggers, which when combined with a poor trigger design is a serious faling gun that is designed as a life saving tool. It would be akin to a life jacket with impossible to manipulate fasteners, which it's supporters point out is safe because it is impossible for them to accidently become undone. If you can't secure your life jacket in a panic situation, in the first place, you are going to drown. In the case of the Glock trigger, if you cannot manipulate it quickly in a gun fight, you get second place. Second place comes with your very own engraved stone tablet, "Here Lies Joe Who Took a Glock to a GunFight."

Glocks are surprisingly inexpensive, and I've been tempted to purchase one just so I can point out its failings as a fighting gun. A fighting gun has 3 criteria that determine its usefulness, it must be reliable, it must have sights you can see, and a trigger you can manage. Things like the material the gun is made from, it's physical size, it's chambering, it's inherent accuracy, and the magazine capacity, while not exactly irrelevant, are all secondary to absolute reliability, sights that can be picked up quickly, and a good trigger. If a rifle was brought out with a Glock style trigger, very few would be sold, because it is impossible to use a rifle with a poor trigger to it's full potential under tight time constraints. The pistol by it's very nature is more difficult to shoot well than a rifle, so logic dictates that a good trigger on the pistol is all the more important. Instead Glock opted to make the trigger as complex and difficult to use under stress as possible, all supposedly in the name of safety, ignoring the fact that a totally safe pistol is totally useless pistol. This is unfortunate, because except for its trigger the Glock has much going for it. It is a reasonable size and weight, it has proven to be a reliable service pistol in real world conditions, it has a generous magazine capacity, decent sights, and an attractive sticker price. If Glock's designers could put a safety on this thing and a good crisp SA trigger, it would be a very good out of the box pistol, and more affordable than a 1911 which more often than not requires some work before it can be deemed suitable for carry.

One time at band camp, I held my Glock upside down and shot it. It put the pointy bullet thing right where that dot thing on the end of the slide was pointing to a second before. Then I used a pen to press the trigger and low and behold it did the same thing. And as far as that hump or uncomfortable angle, I never noticed any uncomfortable humps in the grip.

Why do I need an "on/off" switch on my gun?

Greg
 
Glocks seem to be the "Harley Davidson" of the gun world. They shoot fine and do what they are designed to do. But those that ride/shoot them have a level of faith that is out of all proportion with the actual product. I know that I've met folks that think that a Harley is the only "real" motorcycle out there. I just have to shake my head in wonder at such things.

1911's are the Harley Davidson of pistols. Brand new they suck. Spend a pile of money on them and they function properly. Glocks are more like he Honda Civics of guns!
 
To quote BCRider:
"I'm going to own a Harley at some point and even end up with a Glock at some point. I sure think that these two items are Godsent and all others pale in the divine light of their magnificience."

There, I fixed those grammatical errors you had in your statement! No need to thank me...:D
 
I have owned 5 x glock 17's so far lol

I don't like the glock, but that's purely based on the looks. It's not nice on the eyes, and for me, that's important. I now have 1 glock 17 gen4 that's going to stay with me forever, or until the gen5 comes out.

maybe you should try the FNP45 ;) has to be the heaviest plastic gun out there :D
 
How many rounds have you fired through any Glock?

For the most part service pistol cartridges do not produce uncontrollable recoil. You won't have any problem from recoil or muzzle flip provided you hold the pistol correctly. If your grip on the gun is too low the muzzle will flip up. If the grip frame of the gun is too large for your hand, you will not hold it in line with your forearm and the recoil will kick the muzzle away from the palm of your hand resulting in 9:00 hits on your target, assuming you are right handed. The majority of handguns chambered for service pistol cartridges are pretty mild mannered, provided you understand that the smaller and lighter the gun you choose, the more recoil sensation you will experience.

I find myself in the camp that dislikes Glocks. The ones I've had the opportunity to shoot have had atrocious triggers, which when combined with a poor trigger design is a serious faling gun that is designed as a life saving tool. It would be akin to a life jacket with impossible to manipulate fasteners, which it's supporters point out is safe because it is impossible for them to accidently become undone. If you can't secure your life jacket in a panic situation, in the first place, you are going to drown. In the case of the Glock trigger, if you cannot manipulate it quickly in a gun fight, you get second place. Second place comes with your very own engraved stone tablet, "Here Lies Joe Who Took a Glock to a GunFight."

Glocks are surprisingly inexpensive, and I've been tempted to purchase one just so I can point out its failings as a fighting gun. A fighting gun has 3 criteria that determine its usefulness, it must be reliable, it must have sights you can see, and a trigger you can manage. Things like the material the gun is made from, it's physical size, it's chambering, it's inherent accuracy, and the magazine capacity, while not exactly irrelevant, are all secondary to absolute reliability, sights that can be picked up quickly, and a good trigger. If a rifle was brought out with a Glock style trigger, very few would be sold, because it is impossible to use a rifle with a poor trigger to it's full potential under tight time constraints. The pistol by it's very nature is more difficult to shoot well than a rifle, so logic dictates that a good trigger on the pistol is all the more important. Instead Glock opted to make the trigger as complex and difficult to use under stress as possible, all supposedly in the name of safety, ignoring the fact that a totally safe pistol is totally useless pistol. This is unfortunate, because except for its trigger the Glock has much going for it. It is a reasonable size and weight, it has proven to be a reliable service pistol in real world conditions, it has a generous magazine capacity, decent sights, and an attractive sticker price. If Glock's designers could put a safety on this thing and a good crisp SA trigger, it would be a very good out of the box pistol, and more affordable than a 1911 which more often than not requires some work before it can be deemed suitable for carry.

What I'm wondering is, if you've "been tempted to purchase one just so (you) can point out its failings as a fighting gun", (a ballpark number of) how many rounds have you fired through any Glock?

The first magazine I ever fired from a Glock felt weird. The pistol's owner explained that, with a Glock, one should be shooting-to-reset, and things changed pretty quickly after that. The only time I sense that now is when: A. the connector is coked up with sludge, or; B. I have failed to shoot-to-reset. Both causes attributable to me.
 
To quote BCRider:
"I'm going to own a Harley at some point and even end up with a Glock at some point. I sure think that these two items are Godsent and all others pale in the divine light of their magnificience."

There, I fixed those grammatical errors you had in your statement! No need to thank me...:D

I didn't realize that my fingers had a mind of their own and were corrupting my thoughts so much.... :D

Let me just write your username down on my list..... :D
 
How large are his hands? I'm probably near his age and thanks to a member on the forum here I may be able to try my hand at some pistol shooting. I wonder how I handle the recoil of a G17. (I suppose there's only one way to know...)

You're still in elementary school?;) He's 11 and does not have big hands. He fired around 700 rounds of 9mm over two days and loaded most of his own mags.

Like I said, if he can shoot a Glock well, anyone can.
 
You're still in elementary school?;) He's 11 and does not have big hands. He fired around 700 rounds of 9mm over two days and loaded most of his own mags.

Like I said, if he can shoot a Glock well, anyone can.

I agree. The proof is there in color to see. Canada needs more dads like you Stevo.
 
They are good guns, ergos are not the best but they shoot well and are reliable and durable.
With a couple of simple upgrades to trigger and sights one can have a very nice gun and be very competitive; well, if you don't mind the grip.
 
What I'm wondering is, if you've "been tempted to purchase one just so (you) can point out its failings as a fighting gun", (a ballpark number of) how many rounds have you fired through any Glock?

The first magazine I ever fired from a Glock felt weird. The pistol's owner explained that, with a Glock, one should be shooting-to-reset, and things changed pretty quickly after that. The only time I sense that now is when: A. the connector is coked up with sludge, or; B. I have failed to shoot-to-reset. Both causes attributable to me.

One time at band camp, I held my Glock upside down and shot it. It put the pointy bullet thing right where that dot thing on the end of the slide was pointing to a second before. Then I used a pen to press the trigger and low and behold it did the same thing. And as far as that hump or uncomfortable angle, I never noticed any uncomfortable humps in the grip.

Why do I need an "on/off" switch on my gun?

Greg

Aside from the 1911 and the K100, which out of the box duty pistols have a better overall consensus trigger pull? I don't think its the Beretta, the Sigs, the GP35, the CZ 75, the HKs, etc.

It's not fair to compare a modified or factory target oriented trigger with a stock Glock issue trigger, which out of the box is one of the least bad of the bunch and is more readily improved than most.

Here's the problem as I see it, and these criticisms are towards the pistol when it is used in the life saving role. You are free to disagree. The Glock trigger has a long heavy, and in some cases very heavy, initial pull. Then provided you do no loose contact with the trigger, subsequent shots can be made rapidly and accurately with a short light trigger action. In a fight, you are in as stressful a situation as you are likely to ever find yourself in, with the possible exception of finding yourself on #2 between Calgary and Edmonton in summer time traffic, bumper to bumper at 140 after having spent the previous 15 years driving in Churchill Manitoba at 40 without another vehicle in sight. It is possible when under stress, that you will break contact with the trigger. When (not if) you do, you are back to that long heavy pull, which will cause you to be exposed to fire for a longer period of time. On the range you can shoot a decent group with a long heavy pull, but it takes time, and time is not something to be taken for granted in a fight. Now it is possible to simply waste the shot so you can return to the light short pull, but you are morally, ethically and legally responsible for every round you send down range, particularly if that fight is in an urban environment. The greatest danger though is when you do not realize that you have broken contact with the trigger, you expect a short light pull, but instead have a long heavy one. That is when you get killed.

Neither am I fan of DA/SA autos. DA on a pistol serves no purpose, where as on a revolver it cycles the cylinder to a subsequent chamber providing you a fresh round. However, IMHO, the trigger on a DA/SA pistol is leaps and bounds ahead of the Glock trigger because the operator gets to choose whether he will manually #### the hammer or simply pull the trigger. Once the hammer is cocked, nothing changes until the safety is put on and the hammer is dropped to its rest position. DA only is a really bad idea, but at least it is the same every time, regardless of whether you break contact with the trigger or not.

By contrast a conventional SA pistol only works one way. A short amount of take up, a clean break, then release pressure on the trigger to reset the trigger. If you loose contact with the trigger nothing changes, and each subsequent shot is the same as the previous one. In a fight you are free to do whatever it is you need to do, and the pistol will still fire with a clean 4 pound pull.

That being the case the best fighting pistols, again in my opinion, are the 1911, the P-35, and the SA version of the CZ-75. I have fired perhaps 500 rounds through various Glock pistols, and that was enough for me to make an informed opinion. I will say that the pistols I shot shot very accurately, and I never experienced a stoppage. I don't much care about the shape of the grip frame as you can get used to almost anything provided the handle is of a size that allows you to assume the correct grip, but you can determine that at the time of purchase.

If I was mandated to carry a Glock, I would get my head around it and work with it until I had developed some level of comfort with it. The advantage I have over some is that I have used guns in stressful situations, and because I recognize the short comings of the Glock from the outset I might be better prepared then the individual who puts blind faith in his marksmanship and in the drills he has run at static ranges on face on, stationary, single dimensional targets. The remarkable commercial success of the Glock products does indicate that my opinions are in the minority, but I am not about to change them.
 
I was in the same boat last year. What gun to get for IPSC and IDPA???
Listen to these guys. Go to your gun club and try some guns out.
Go a watch a Black Badge course in progress. You will want to be
the guy with the Glock then. No saftey, decocker. Just point and shoot.

Is the Glock trigger crap????
Well when I am at the range the only guys that complain about Glock triggers are the guys shooting $5000 dollar guns. lol

As for me my Baby Eagle, 1911's, and USP triggers are nicer.
But my G17 and G22 eat any ammo. They dont care what you feed them.
My Glocks go click click boom every time.
Parts and upgrades are super easy to find for the Glocks.
Glocks are easy to work on. Lots of info out there.

As for a gun fight?? Which one is better? lol
At 40 years old. I think the best way to survive a gun fight is to NOT get in one.
 
ya know, i'm wondering - if EVERYONE who says that Glocks are crap and their triggers are awful, would they be willing to hand someone a loaded Glock and say "go ahead, shoot me! i'm not afraid, that trigger is crap, you're not gonna be able to aim or control it, all i have to do is say 'Oooga oooga boo!' to you and you'll be SO freakin' nervous that the trigger won't go off when you want it to."

so yeah, care to do that? hand someone a loaded Glock and challenge them to "try" to shoot you?





all of a sudden, Glock triggers aren't all that awful...
 
a normal handshake applies 20# of pressure.... and yet people are crying about a 5# trigger pull on a glock pistol.... even an 8# trigger pull.... hell the RCMP, Most sheriffs Dept's, Fish and Game and Frankly ALL LEO in north america are saddled with a trigger of 8# or MORE and they still seem to do fine with thier guns.... oh yeah and since glock owns 60+% of the LEO market in north america then a lot of these guns are glocks.
 
As for a gun fight?? Which one is better? lol
At 40 years old. I think the best way to survive a gun fight is to NOT get in one.

Best post on gunnutz I have read in over a year.:cheers:

Glocks are excellent handguns, relatively inexpensive, reliable and accurate out of the box. They aren't for everyone or for every application but they fill a niche they were designed for LEO/Military which required the above attributes. A side benefit is they work well in Action Shooting as well.....for some, with a few parts replacement ie sights and trigger groups.

Take Care

Bob
 
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