Curiosity - polarized opinions on Glocks?

I shot a Glock for IPSC for a few years. It was great, no problems with accuracy as far as I was concerned. Seems like all the 1911 shooters hate Glocks, they like the classic. However after seeing 1911 after 1911 with FTF, eject etc I am happy with my pistols of choices. If I could only get back all my time I've watched guys with 1911's that don't work on the range or in competition I'd be laughing.

Me personally, I don't like the 1911's, I would rather throw one of them at the target, although they are way too heavy and probably couldn't throw one 10 yards!
 
I shot a Glock for IPSC for a few years. It was great, no problems with accuracy as far as I was concerned. Seems like all the 1911 shooters hate Glocks, they like the classic. However after seeing 1911 after 1911 with FTF, eject etc I am happy with my pistols of choices. If I could only get back all my time I've watched guys with 1911's that don't work on the range or in competition I'd be laughing.

Me personally, I don't like the 1911's, I would rather throw one of them at the target, although they are way too heavy and probably couldn't throw one 10 yards!

ohh!:nest::stirthepot2:
:D
 
I shot a Glock for IPSC for a few years. It was great, no problems with accuracy as far as I was concerned. Seems like all the 1911 shooters hate Glocks, they like the classic. However after seeing 1911 after 1911 with FTF, eject etc I am happy with my pistols of choices. If I could only get back all my time I've watched guys with 1911's that don't work on the range or in competition I'd be laughing.

Me personally, I don't like the 1911's, I would rather throw one of them at the target, although they are way too heavy and probably couldn't throw one 10 yards!

IPSC seems to encourage folks to trick out their pistols and the 1911s tend to loose reliability when they are tightened up for accuracy. In a fight, an accurized 1911 serves no purpose as no one can shoot tighter than 10 MOA in combat. If you shoot a 1911, your best bet is to stick as close to the original specifications as possible, with improvements going towards sight visibility, a trigger of suitable length for the shooter, the installation of a grip safety with a hump or the grip safety pinned, a trigger job should that be required, and dehorning to avoid cut hands. Regardless of which pistol you choose, if the gun is to be used as a life saving tool, reliability is the primary requirement. If your gun is not reliable, that is the first issue you need to address. I can't help but think those who have rejected the 1911 out of hand don't understand the question, but in actuality they probably can't get their heads around the idea that a fighting implement designed 100 years ago cannot be improved upon.
 
Let's face it boomer. You obviously had a bunk glock if it had a 20lb trigger pull so please stop using that pistol as your comparison to others.

The point that I've been attempting to make, and that everyone is fastidiously ignoring, is that a dual trigger system, that does not provide the shooter with the means by which he can select the mode he wishes to fire in, is tactically dangerous in a fighting gun, which the Glock is reputed to be. This is all personal opinion, and everyone is entitled to his own ideas, and is free to disagree. Everyone who carries should be confident in his firearm, but conversely they should be aware of the shortcomings of the piece they are mandated to carry or have chosen to carry. For recreational shooters, it doesn't matter a hill of beans which gun you choose, its all about having fun, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. The Glock is a reliable, accurate out of the box pistol, that is interesting to own and shoot. All you Glock lovers just need to ignore my rambling and enjoy your toys.
 
dual trigger system >|??

glock does not have a dual trigger system... same pull every time if you you let the trigger all the way forward, if you use trigger reset that is your option.
 
I weigh the rounds as it's the only thing I can do short of firing them to test them.

We train for multiple types of stoppage. Like I said we load each others mags so we don't know when it's coming. Trust me I would t pull the trigger twice without fixing the problem. 100's of hours of practice ensures this to be so.

I like sigs mainly because of the faster reload as the mag will always eject itself. But I'm far more competent with a glock and am happy to stick with it.

For sim training we don't have the possibility of live ammo. We use special blue glocks that don't fire live rounds. But function and feel identical. They are the best training we can do with someone shooting back. They often get stoppages. And trust me the things that are firing back hurt enough to I've you incentive to fix the problem.

I don't know why a 1911 would make you more likely to rack the slide. To be honest I don't know what your experience is. But from a lot of the stuff yu have posted I would suggest you do not know how or why people who carry for real train. That comment alone makes no sense. It's so in my sub concious that when I have a stoppage ( remember we load each others mags to make them a suprise) I have tapped the mag and racked the slide before I even realize.

Much like when it runs empty. I'm already ditching the mag and going for the next before I can think about it purely because I can feel the guns balance change to show me the slide is locked back. I can tell by feel this over just a jammed slide.
I am fully aware things could fail at any time. But I do my best to negate that by all these measures. And should something happen I know how to fix it. And have done so 1000's of times.
My gun is mechanically perfect. And parts showing wear are replaced regurally.
It's tested and checked weekly. Cleaned if it's ever wet or dirty or shot. My ammo is given every possible check we can. And my training covers the rest.

Like I said. 50000 plus rounds and no failures is good enough for me.



I'm glad to hear you get good performance from your Glock. Had my experience been positive I might have been a fan as well. It is interesting though that you state a preference for a SIG despite all the Glock shooting you have done, perhaps you've been mandated to carry one and had to develop a measure of comfort with it. SIGs have issues as well, aside from the sticker price, but had I to choose between a Glock and a SIG, the decision would be easy. You are correct that my horizontal groups are a result of not spending enough time with the Glock, but seeing that I'm comfortably into middle age now, I doubt I will live long enough to get a horizontal group with all the holes touching to morf into a round group from a gun with a 20 pound trigger. Although I did say that had that been my gun, I'd have fixed that trigger, probably by throwing the gun into Hudson Bay, and going back to one of my 1911s, or even a revolver.

Getting 2 hits in one second, including reaction time and draw is very fast, as fast as most people's reaction time alone, you are to be commended. Of course you are ready for the signal that you know is coming which is the downfall of any timed drill, whereas on the street what matters is how quickly you can deliver a shot without being forewarned of the need.

I would like to know what you thought you accomplished by weighing your ammo though. A bad primer weighs the same as a good one, and if you have a heavy casing and a heavy bullet that is more than enough to mask a light powder charge in a service pistol cartridge. If it makes you feel better though, carry on. A bad round can occur from any manufacturer, from any batch number, regardless of how much testing is done. The testing that is involved in the quality control of ammunition only tests the round that is being tested, not the next one, or the one that is in your chamber. If you ever experience one, it might be that one in a billion failure, but if that is the round in your chamber when you need it, it doesn't help you. I wonder if you would pull the trigger a second time or rack the slide? I'll bet you'd pull the trigger again, and probably get the same results. With a 1911 you'd be more inclined to rack the slide. I've pointed this out to others who must put absolute faith in their ammo when they engage in their high risk professions, and like them you probably won't consider the possibility relevant to your experience, besides, you're not going to live forever, right?

That fact that you drill to clear a stoppage is far more important than weighing pistol rounds, I hope your drills are not limited to a single type of stoppage. In a real fight, you might not get that magazine securely locked in after a speed reload. The fastest and surest means of dealing with a stoppage is by carrying a backup as you can draw and fire with your weak hand faster than you can diagnose, clear, and reload a stoppage in your primary.

I dislike the simulated gunfight exercises with non-lethal rounds. Aside from the possibility of a lethal round finding its way into a magazine, and that has happened, it messes with your mindset that that thing on your hip is a lethal weapon. I never want to loose that discomfort that must be overcome even in a fight when my front sight covers a live human being. But if that's the way you train its none of my business, at least you get the idea that a human target can shrink in front of your eyes by simply quartering towards you.
 
Oh and as for drawing a back up quicker than fixin a stoppage. Bs. If I had a bad primer which would be the only real cause of a stoppage. Particually first shot we train not to need to take time to diagnose. It's simply tap and rack then try again. This takes milliseconds.

Should the gun jam it can still be fixed quicker than drawing a second gun with weak hand.

You seem to have read too many swat monthly magazines and not actually done it for yourself.

As for non lethal training taking away from the real use. I wouldmsuggest you have never done it. That doesn't even enter your mind. And for putting my front sight on a person. I have done it and was within the people taking one more step to firing. And Trust
me I wouldn't have hesitated. Luckily for them other things happened which saved me the need to fire. Some gave up. Some got nailed by less than lethal alternatives.

Plus in my line of business I has had to do things to people that are alien to most. And when the need arises the overlying desire to go home to my family has meant inhabe had No issues doing what needed to be done.
 
Great I like em too! But I trade ya my 34 for one of those sweet 1911's I know ya got!:evil::D

The 1911's are "keepers" not traders.....;) :p

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
dual trigger system >|??

glock does not have a dual trigger system... same pull every time if you you let the trigger all the way forward, if you use trigger reset that is your option.

Set or nonset, that is a duel mode, which is a better term I suppose. The fact is you can only choose the unset mode, you cannot fire the initial shot from the set position. In a fight, because the gun unset the trigger if you loose contact with the trigger could leave you not knowing which condition the trigger is in. Thus it is tactically dangerous.
 
Set or nonset, that is a duel mode, which is a better term I suppose. The fact is you can only choose the unset mode, you cannot fire the initial shot from the set position. In a fight, because the gun unset the trigger if you loose contact with the trigger could leave you not knowing which condition the trigger is in. Thus it is tactically dangerous.

ok have you even shot a glocK ?? if you loose contact with the trigger then you have obviously let the trigger all the way out and not stopped....

the striker always returns to the same position on a glock.... trigger reset is a means of the shooter stopping the trigger before it fully returns to the forward position and firing the gun.... it is not some "feature" of glocks, it is just proper trigger control for multiple shots, every "handgun" has a set point in the trigger pull when it resets and you are able to pull the trigger again for another shoot....

try this next time your shooting your gun, whatever make and model... pull the trigger and hold it to the rear after firing, now slowly let the trigger out till you feel the sear reset, now pull the trigger again again at that point without letting it go all the way forward... that is trigger reset. It works with 100% of the semi auto guns out there.... with the exception of some DAO guns and Revolvers.... 1911's can be shot this way as well as M&P's, SIGS and you name it...

like seriously, I doubt you have any "experience" with a glock...
 
I weigh the rounds as it's the only thing I can do short of firing them to test them.

We train for multiple types of stoppage. Like I said we load each others mags so we don't know when it's coming. Trust me I would t pull the trigger twice without fixing the problem. 100's of hours of practice ensures this to be so.

I like sigs mainly because of the faster reload as the mag will always eject itself. But I'm far more competent with a glock and am happy to stick with it.

For sim training we don't have the possibility of live ammo. We use special blue glocks that don't fire live rounds. But function and feel identical. They are the best training we can do with someone shooting back. They often get stoppages. And trust me the things that are firing back hurt enough to I've you incentive to fix the problem.

I don't know why a 1911 would make you more likely to rack the slide. To be honest I don't know what your experience is. But from a lot of the stuff yu have posted I would suggest you do not know how or why people who carry for real train. That comment alone makes no sense. It's so in my sub concious that when I have a stoppage ( remember we load each others mags to make them a suprise) I have tapped the mag and racked the slide before I even realize.

Much like when it runs empty. I'm already ditching the mag and going for the next before I can think about it purely because I can feel the guns balance change to show me the slide is locked back. I can tell by feel this over just a jammed slide.
I am fully aware things could fail at any time. But I do my best to negate that by all these measures. And should something happen I know how to fix it. And have done so 1000's of times.
My gun is mechanically perfect. And parts showing wear are replaced regurally.
It's tested and checked weekly. Cleaned if it's ever wet or dirty or shot. My ammo is given every possible check we can. And my training covers the rest.

Like I said. 50000 plus rounds and no failures is good enough for me.

When you first stated that you trained with sim ammo, you did not say anything about using a Blue Glock, which is a pretty good idea. Everyone who has used sim ammo in a lethal firearm has sworn up and down there is no possibility of a live round finding its way into a sim loaded magazine, yet it has happened. Perhaps that has resulted in better safeguards being put in place, but when people say something is not possible, its just a matter of time until there a problem arises. Training with the Blue Glock, is not the same as training with your duty weapon, and you know that you cannot injure the person you point it at, so that resolves the issue of you loosing that discomfort when your front sight covers a human form.

Running a gun dry is an undesirable situation, as you don't get to choose when to reload, although training must include dealing with the possibility. By the way junior, the reason you rack the 1911 slide automatically to clear a round that has failed to fire, is because that is your only option. A Glock or a DA pistol gives you the option of racking the slide or simply pulling the trigger in hopes that the round will fire on the second attempt. In a fight, pulling the trigger a second time in hopes of firing a dud is not a sound decision.
Last night I talked to the fellow who allowed me to shoot his Glock last year and asked him if I might have the chance to examine it more closely and shoot it again, and and he said his department was so dissatisfied with them that they pulled them and issued shiny new 9mm SIGs.

The best check you can give your ammo is to run it through your gun to ensure that the gun will cycle properly. If you come across any rounds that appear damaged, or out of spec they need to be culled. Beyond that, you can only have faith that the gun goes bang when it needs to.
 
ok have you even shot a glocK ?? if you loose contact with the trigger then you have obviously let the trigger all the way out and not stopped....

the striker always returns to the same position on a glock.... trigger reset is a means of the shooter stopping the trigger before it fully returns to the forward position and firing the gun.... it is not some "feature" of glocks, it is just proper trigger control for multiple shots, every "handgun" has a set point in the trigger pull when it resets and you are able to pull the trigger again for another shoot....

try this next time your shooting your gun, whatever make and model... pull the trigger and hold it to the rear after firing, now slowly let the trigger out till you feel the sear reset, now pull the trigger again again at that point without letting it go all the way forward... that is trigger reset. It works with 100% of the semi auto guns out there.... with the exception of some DAO guns and Revolvers.... 1911's can be shot this way as well as M&P's, SIGS and you name it...

like seriously, I doubt you have any "experience" with a glock...


like I doubt you have ever been in a gunfight or had cold hands.

As I said in an earlier post, the trigger of a SA pistol has the same action whether you loose contact with it or not. Thus the travel and break of the trigger are always the same. A DA/SA pistol can be cocked for the first shot, at the discretion of the operator, and once the hammer is back, that pistol will have the same trigger action from shot to shot regardless of whether or not contact with the trigger is lost. A Glock cannot be set without first pulling the trigger for the initial shot. If contact with the trigger is broken, the hammer reverts to the longer pull. In the stress of combat, if your hands are cold you might not realize you have broken contact with that trigger, and the result will be momentary confusion when you press the trigger without result..
 
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Oh and as for drawing a back up quicker than fixin a stoppage. Bs. If I had a bad primer which would be the only real cause of a stoppage. Particually first shot we train not to need to take time to diagnose. It's simply tap and rack then try again. This takes milliseconds.

Should the gun jam it can still be fixed quicker than drawing a second gun with weak hand.

You seem to have read too many swat monthly magazines and not actually done it for yourself.

As for non lethal training taking away from the real use. I wouldmsuggest you have never done it. That doesn't even enter your mind. And for putting my front sight on a person. I have done it and was within the people taking one more step to firing. And Trust
me I wouldn't have hesitated. Luckily for them other things happened which saved me the need to fire. Some gave up. Some got nailed by less than lethal alternatives.

Plus in my line of business I has had to do things to people that are alien to most. And when the need arises the overlying desire to go home to my family has meant inhabe had No issues doing what needed to be done.

When you have a stoppage, particularly with a gun that never has a stoppage, the first thing that happens is surprise. Once you recover from your surprise, you have to determine the nature of the stoppage. Lets assume you have a double feed. Clearing this requires locking the slide open, discarding the magazine that was in the gun, inserting the fresh magazine, racking the slide to release it, then reacquiring your sight picture. If you can do that as fast then you can draw a back up from your weak side, power to you, I can't, and neither can many others. In any case, you are probably prohibited by regulation from carrying a backup, so it is a non-issue.

Everyone has the right to go home at the end of their shift, and if this discussion has caused you to look closer at your own procedures, even though you disagree with me, and you are confident that your training, ability, and mindset are in the right place, then all is good.
 
Ok. You have really shown your ignorance now. You cannot simply pull the trigger again on a glock after a ftf. The slide must be worked. Once the spring is released it's done.

And I don't know how mnay times I can tell you stoppages won't be a suprise because we load random ones in for each other. Both phase 1 and 2.

And training with blue guns is viable as glocks are so consistant thy all feel the same if set up right.

Like I said you have read too many swat monthly. But consistantly show you know little on the subject. So in light of that. I'm done.
When you first stated that you trained with sim ammo, you did not say anything about using a Blue Glock, which is a pretty good idea. Everyone who has used sim ammo in a lethal firearm has sworn up and down there is no possibility of a live round finding its way into a sim loaded magazine, yet it has happened. Perhaps that has resulted in better safeguards being put in place, but when people say something is not possible, its just a matter of time until there a problem arises. Training with the Blue Glock, is not the same as training with your duty weapon, and you know that you cannot injure the person you point it at, so that resolves the issue of you loosing that discomfort when your front sight covers a human form.

Running a gun dry is an undesirable situation, as you don't get to choose when to reload, although training must include dealing with the possibility. By the way junior, the reason you rack the 1911 slide automatically to clear a round that has failed to fire, is because that is your only option. A Glock or a DA pistol gives you the option of racking the slide or simply pulling the trigger in hopes that the round will fire on the second attempt. In a fight, pulling the trigger a second time in hopes of firing a dud is not a sound decision.
Last night I talked to the fellow who allowed me to shoot his Glock last year and asked him if I might have the chance to examine it more closely and shoot it again, and and he said his department was so dissatisfied with them that they pulled them and issued shiny new 9mm SIGs.

The best check you can give your ammo is to run it through your gun to ensure that the gun will cycle properly. If you come across any rounds that appear damaged, or out of spec they need to be culled. Beyond that, you can only have faith that the gun goes bang when it needs to.
 
like I doubt you have ever been in a gunfight or had cold hands.

As I said in an earlier post, the trigger of a SA pistol has the same action whether you loose contact with it or not. Thus the travel and break of the trigger are always the same. A DA/SA pistol can be cocked for the first shot, at the discretion of the operator, and once the hammer is back, that pistol will have the same trigger action from shot to shot regardless of whether or not contact with the trigger is lost. A Glock cannot be set without first pulling the trigger for the initial shot. If contact with the trigger is broken, the hammer reverts to the longer pull. In the stress of combat, if your hands are cold you might not realize you have broken contact with that trigger, and the result will be momentary confusion when you press the trigger without result..


SERIOUSLY MAN, do you believe what you write ?? do you proof read it and see that what you write makes no sense ??? one one hand you talk about thumb cocking a da/sa in the "stress of combat" and on the other you say people who train with glocks can't be trusted to use trigger rest at thier discreation.... in the "stress of combat" (like when is a pistol going to be used in the stress of combat... thats what rifles are for)

a glock shooter would "probably" revert to letting the trigger all the way out for every shot.... and then using proper technique pull the trigger straight back until the gun fires..... seriously, only an idiot half pulls a trigger when he means to shoot.... you never assume, you follow your training, front sight, squeeze, BANG.
 
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