Colt pocket arbor pins

H Wally

H Wally

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Alright! I got my antique colt pocket manufactured in 1872 and, naturally, have it entirely in pieces.

One question though.... the arbour pin. Was it threaded, pinned, pressed or what? Best evidence I can figure out from posts online and looking at the gun it's either pressed or threaded, but there's some corrosion so I could easily miss a small pin. The arbor pin is ok for now, but is one of the things I would replace if I overhauled the gun, as it has been shimmed and is a bit rough. Don't want to try to unscrew an arbour pin if there's a set screw or do anything else to wreck it.

So, colt 1858 pocket revolver in 31 caliber, made 1872. How are the arbour pins installed/removed?


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She looks great Wally!!

Unfortunately Im unsure if theres any type of lock on the pin, as far as I know they are thredded in there.

Nice little plinker!!
 
Search Google here; "Colt percussion revolver base pin"
There's all kinds of interesting information...and probably some misinformation, but the key is using the correct terminology. To wit "base pin".



The first type used on Colts up to about serial number 165,000 is the so-called “blackpowder-frame type.” With this type, the base pin is retained by a single lock screw located at the front of the frame, just below the barrel and ahead of the trigger guard. To remove the base pin, you first have to remove this lock-screw, then the base pin can be pulled straight out from the front of the frame (#20).
 
rodagra said:
Search Google here; "Colt percussion revolver base pin"
There's all kinds of interesting information...and probably some misinformation, but the key is using the correct terminology. To wit "base pin".



The first type used on Colts up to about serial number 165,000 is the so-called “blackpowder-frame type.” With this type, the base pin is retained by a single lock screw located at the front of the frame, just below the barrel and ahead of the trigger guard. To remove the base pin, you first have to remove this lock-screw, then the base pin can be pulled straight out from the front of the frame (#20).
Click to expand...

I thought this was only applicable to colt SAA cartridge guns.

There are only two screws forward of the cylinder on my colt open top - one acting as a pivot pin for the loading ram and the other retaining the arbor pin wedge.

I'm just looking at the frame in the channel for the hammer and I think I might have found a pin. Pity. I had hoped they wouldn't have done that.
 
H Wally said:
I thought this was only applicable to colt SAA cartridge guns.

There are only two screws forward of the cylinder on my colt open top - one acting as a pivot pin for the loading ram and the other retaining the arbor pin wedge.

I'm just looking at the frame in the channel for the hammer and I think I might have found a pin. Pity. I had hoped they wouldn't have done that.
Click to expand...

If there's a pin there it must be through and through or it would be impossible to get it in, let alone out.
PM James Dunlop on this board. He'll have the answer.
 
Definitely. I just popped a small piece of crud and found a hole. Trying to figure out if it's a hole left over as a pilot or centering hole for drilling and threading the arbour pin hole or if it's for the pin. With the frame in the way it's hard to tell just how centered the hole is to the arbour pin. Plus there's rust so regardless of pins the threads themselves will be seized, so forcing it may or may not be the answer :p

I've got it soaking in penetrating oil for now while I dig for more info.

Anyone have an open top colt of any kind who could msg me or photo the hammer channel for comparison of the hole that's there?
 
Ive had a couple of these before...and replaced the arbor pins in bot. In fact I still have a new pin kicking around somewhere...anyways, i never came accross any setscrews or pins. just unthreaded the arbour pin and threaded a new one in.
 
SIGP2101 said:
# 28 in this diagram.
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=10cat=Uberti+1849+Pocket

Now Q. is, how authentic reproduction to original is?
Click to expand...

Exactly - I know the parts are NOT interchangeable in the majority of reproductions.


oldiron said:
The pin is off-set just going through the threads I think. Dunno how to remove tho. Maybe drilled out and replaced?
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Yep - if it is in there, then it would have to be drilled out. I know people drill them then tap the hole for a set screw so they can disassemble the guns properly afterwards.


sportee said:
Ive had a couple of these before...and replaced the arbor pins in bot. In fact I still have a new pin kicking around somewhere...anyways, i never came accross any setscrews or pins. just unthreaded the arbour pin and threaded a new one in.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the large central pin that holds the barrel to the frame and has the wedge pass through it when you say king pin?

Do you remember, or do you still have one of those colts? Where they antiques or repros?

Did either of them have a hole directly in line with the arbour/king pin on the back of the frame in the hammer channel?


I really do not want to drill the hole if there's no pin in there, and I don't want to force the arbour pin if there is. Either one could destroy my gun.
 
Theres a Pin in there and its a Blind hole (meening it dont go right thru the frame and out again it goes into the main shaft tho but not right thu the shaft out the other side of the frame) if the gun is like the 3 i have had.
Not easy to get out.
Hit the retaining pin with a center punch then try and drill it out.
If its Iron it should drill out no problem.
But its not a fun job.






.
 
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I had been hoping someone would chime in and say that original late model colts didn't have pins and the hole I am looking at is just a pilot hole. :p Guess I can't have everything.
 
Hi Wally. I looked at four 49 pockets. Three have pins, built in 51, 52, and 61. One has no pin, also built in 61. The arbour goes through the back of the frame. Good luck. Bill...
 
And the 1861 one with no pin, does it have a hole drilled in the frame in line with the arbour pin in the hammer groove in the frame?

(Thanks for checking by the way)
 
Frick!!!!

:bangHead::bangHead::bangHead::bangHead::bangHead::bangHead:

Hmmf. I managed to bugger that up.

FYI for anyone looking to replace an arbour pin on the old colts, the arbour pin runs fully through the frame and there will likely be a hole from where the pin was centered in the lathe. That isn't the pin hole:rolleyes:

That was actually why I was so confused about how the guns were pinned. The hole I could see looked like it was centered, or just about centered, to the arbour pin. I couldn't figure out how it worked. Once I drilled it I tried a light bit of pressure on the pin to see if it would move and immediately bulged and torqued the wedge slot in the pin. :(

Doing this did however cause the actual retaining pin to show itself. I drilled that out no problem....

So, now I'm left with a dead arbour pin. I sincerely doubt it could be repaired as it's both torqued and bulged. Plus it was shimmed with silver solder and a piece of steel in the past, which was falling out.

Ultimately I'm more annoyed I didn't figure it out than that the pin is now dead. It was loose and needed replacing anyways, so this just stops the temptation of shooting it in the meantime:p

Anyone out there have replacement pins, or can copy them on a lathe?
 
Wally,

Can you show some photos? It would be really useful for us if you can show where actual Cylinder Base Pin Lock pin is (was) located
 
For sure!

The upper hole is the actual pin hole.

The lower hole is the drilled out centering hole for the lathe. The the blind pin and the arbour pin were absolutely invisible until I broke them free. Hence why I thought the arbour pin was threaded into a blind hole as well. Your blind pin *May* not be in the same place.

Also, the peanut gallery that is my extended family produced lots of useful advice after I screwed up, as is usually the case. If you're having trouble seeing the pins, use a wire brush to clean away any corrosion or dirt, wipe clean, and brush an acid on. It will expose the transitions between the frame and pin. I tried it on a test piece and it worked.... too bad no one told me about it before :p

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Well.

Its drilled. Too late to do anything about that.

Tap it, make a set screw from the shank of an appropriate sized bolt or screw, and get on with life. Cut a slot, (or find a slot head set screw) and it will at least look reasonably correct, not like using a allen head set screw.

Cheers
Trev
 
Yep. The old arbour pin worked but wasn't really functional, so had to be replaced anyways. Since it's got corrosion pitting on the frame face and was also buffed with a wire wheel before I got it, so it's pretty much a candidate for total overhaul.
 
H Wally said:
Yep. The old arbour pin worked but wasn't really functional, so had to be replaced anyways. Since it's got corrosion pitting on the frame face and was also buffed with a wire wheel before I got it, so it's pretty much a candidate for total overhaul.
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buy David Chicoines book "gunsmithing guns of the old west". IIRC he has dimentioned drawings of the arbour pins, both real & repop.

w w w .oldwestgunsmith.com

Appears to be out of print at this time...
 
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