a 1911 in .357 magnum

polaris rider said:
thanks for your quality response...
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Not really sure what sort of response you are looking for...a 1911 will not fit the .357 cartridge. If you are only interested in a 1911 in .357, then you're out of luck. If you want something similar to a 1911, the Coonan is probably the way to go but since you specifically said you're only interested in a 1911, you do not have any options at all.
 
misanthropist said:
Not really sure what sort of response you are looking for...a 1911 will not fit the .357 cartridge. If you are only interested in a 1911 in .357, then you're out of luck. If you want something similar to a 1911, the Coonan is probably the way to go but since you specifically said you're only interested in a 1911, you do not have any options at all.
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This question is to both the OP and misanthropist; What exactly are you calling a 1911?

If you are saying that a 1911 is a 5" government as designed by John Browning.. Then how many "1911's" fall out Kimbers, Smiths, SVI, STI, anything commander length. Heck even mid range (for 38 special's are't really 1911's).. Anything with a series 80 safety

However there are those that feel.. a 1911 is more a style... the shape, position of the controls, action, grip angles, basic function.. the look and feel..

Yes you get into a grey area with this when you start to talk about PARA and all the double stack gun's. Even so I think they could be call 1911 pattern guns..
 
I am not a purist by any stretch and would definitely allow other calibers and the Series 80s for sure...these are relatively minor departures from the original design. But if you are at the point where you are designing a new pistol to fit a rimmed cartridge that's 8mm too long to fit in the 1911 frame - and the Coonan definitely required a lot of design work - then no, that is not a 1911 any more.

I'm not a "defender of 1911s as designed by god" or anything. I am just pointing out that the Coonan is as close to a 1911 as a .357 can get and it is not actually a 1911, it is just a pistol designed by a guy who was clearly a fan of the 1911, and which uses some of the same parts. They are cool guns, but they aren't 1911s.
 
bear.23 said:
This question is to both the OP and misanthropist; What exactly are you calling a 1911?

If you are saying that a 1911 is a 5" government as designed by John Browning.. Then how many "1911's" fall out Kimbers, Smiths, SVI, STI, anything commander length. Heck even mid range (for 38 special's are't really 1911's).. Anything with a series 80 safety

However there are those that feel.. a 1911 is more a style... the shape, position of the controls, action, grip angles, basic function.. the look and feel..

Yes you get into a grey area with this when you start to talk about PARA and all the double stack gun's. Even so I think they could be call 1911 pattern guns..
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thanks, this is the kinda of comments i am looking, as i am new to this and i surely not as knowledgeable as others are, other comments i have received are splittin hairs...you sir, i believe are getting to, and have a fairly good idea of what i have in mind..other comments by (those who seem to be legends in there own minds)are filed in neatly the "G" bin....

:)
 
misanthropist said:
I am not a purist by any stretch and would definitely allow other calibers and the Series 80s for sure...these are relatively minor departures from the original design. But if you are at the point where you are designing a new pistol to fit a rimmed cartridge that's 8mm too long to fit in the 1911 frame - and the Coonan definitely required a lot of design work - then no, that is not a 1911 any more.

I'm not a "defender of 1911s as designed by god" or anything. I am just pointing out that the Coonan is as close to a 1911 as a .357 can get and it is not actually a 1911, it is just a pistol designed by a guy who was clearly a fan of the 1911, and which uses some of the same parts. They are cool guns, but they aren't 1911s.
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OK.. I'll agree that they are cool guns :)

FYI 52 different parts/pins in a 5 inch series 80 colt government including the mag
take off 5 for the series 80 parts...

20 of those parts will go right into the Coonan...
Barrel Bushing
Disconnector
Firing Pin Stop
Hammer
Hammer Pin
Hammer Strut
Hammer Strut Pin
Magazine Catch
Magazine Catch Lock
Magazine Catch Spring
Plunger Tube
Plunger Tube Spring
Plunger Tube Slide Pin
Plunger Tube Thumb Safety Pin
Sear
Sear Pin
Sear Spring
Thumb Safety
Grip Screw
Grip Screw Bushing

I don't think anything that is a double stack is a 1911 and I don't think anything that messes with the fire control is a 1911.. external extractor?? I dunno...
 
I don't doubt that this is true, but a lot of parts from a Civic will fit on an Accord, however a Civic is not an Accord.

If someone were to say to me, "I want a Civic with such and such feature from the Accord, and I am only interested in Civics", well, I'd be strongly inclined to say, "sorry, that only comes on the Accord".

If anything in the Honda family is good enough, then the Accord is obviously the way to go...but when I hear "I am only interested in Civics" I just have to assume the guy wants a Civic.

The Coonan is a very interesting machine but if the 5 part difference is enough to knock out the Series 80, why isn't the 32 part difference (including massively different frame and mags) enough to eliminate the Coonan?

I am not sure what the Coonan is exactly but I have a hard time buying the argument that it is a 1911. If it's "close enough" for this guy's purposes that's great but seeing as how he was specifically after a 1911 I find that a little strange.
 
I could keep this going for a bit.. But It's a waste of time.. I don't think a coonan is a 1911 but it is a 1911 style or pattern... Call it 1911-ish...

I seriously doubt 50% of the accord parts are the same as on the Civic... But I don't know Japanese cars that well... So I could be wrong..

I was trying to find where you drew the line..
 
misanthropist said:
I don't think I disagree with you at all...it is definitely a 1911 style. For me the line is probably drawn somewhere around trying to solve new engineering problems like a mag for a rimmed cartridge.
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And this is where I have the issue.. the 1911 Mid range (38 special) and he colt ace (in 22lr) both are 1911's and both are rimmed.
 
I think this may be going in the wrong direction and you may blame me for my ignorance.....i guess i should have said 1911ish...but i did not think this would escalate into a free for all.

maybe i did not mention it but i am new to handguns :eek::eek:
 
Why muck around with a rimmed cartridge in an auto when you could get a 10mm Auto and be further ahead power wise!
 
polaris rider said:
I think this may be going in the wrong direction and you may blame me for my ignorance.....i guess i should have said 1911ish...but i did not think this would escalate into a free for all.

maybe i did not mention it but i am new to handguns :eek::eek:
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Sorry, it's really my mistake; I thought you were rejecting all non-1911 options - including the Coonan - because you were just hell-bent on an actual 1911.

But if the Coonan is close enough for you, you could wait for the new ones to come out. Unfortunately I suspect they won't be cheap, and waiting for a new gun can be a pretty slow, disappointing experience.

Current Coonans exist but are extremely rare, and even in the US, one magazine will often fetch ~$150.

I am also the owner of a .357 rifle and like it a lot but in the end, .357 autos tend to be expensive, finicky and rare. I hope you track one down that you like.
 
polaris rider said:
come on guys settle down this is way to much excitement for me...
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I don't think misanthropist feels any ill will over this discussion.. I certainly don't.. It's mostly semantics...

This is a discussion forum.. You will find there are people here who have strong feelings on lots of subjects and the knowledge base within the group is virtually endless..

How people phrase things may sound like a war of words.. But it usually isn't..

I own probably 12, 1911 type guns in a bunch different calibers(9mm 10mm, 40, 45, 38 super, 400 corbon, 22LR and the coonan's in 357)..

My first gun was a National Match in 22.. Still have it.. Colt ACE top end... Shoots like a dream tons of history...
I've probably had three times as many through my hands..
I really wish I hadn't sold the mid range I had..
I have had a rand, Singer and several M1911's from WW2..
I think I have one US marked M1911 left..
I had a V45 Longslide in 45 super (I would be pressing my luck to call it a 1911) But it was some gun..

I have a couple commander length and I have Springfields, colt's, Norinco's, STI's..

I love the 1911 platform. It's tunable, customizable.. The gun is easy to maintain. I can tune a trigger to nice crisp 2 - 2.5 lbs. They last forever if treated right..

A properly loaded 45 Ball round round is without a doubt :nest:one of the most utilitarian rounds out there... Plenty accurate, lots of stopping power and not too much recoil...

So whether a gun is a 1911, a 1911 type or 1911ish gun is really not that important... What is important is that you get all the info you need and that you end up with something that you enjoy...

Knowledge won't hurt you.. (Ignorance may kill you)...

I think we agree a coonan is not a 1911.. Close but not quite.. The reasons we may disagree upon...

Some guns called 1911 aren't really 1911's they are wanna be's, interpretations. But they are really 1911 pattern, 1911 type or 1911ish guns.. They look like it or function like it, but fall out for some reason.. I mean who in god's name at Springfield decided a 2 piece barrel was a good idea? Who was it that thought barrel links were a bad idea? And Sorry Colt the Series 80 was just a bad decision.. The list can go on and the decision as to if it's a disqualifying factor is very personal.. Nobody will dispute that the 1911 that browning created is the 1911.. What you do to it is your choice..
 
misanthropist said:
Sorry, it's really my mistake; I thought you were rejecting all non-1911 options - including the Coonan - because you were just hell-bent on an actual 1911.

But if the Coonan is close enough for you, you could wait for the new ones to come out. Unfortunately I suspect they won't be cheap, and waiting for a new gun can be a pretty slow, disappointing experience.

Current Coonans exist but are extremely rare, and even in the US, one magazine will often fetch ~$150.

I am also the owner of a .357 rifle and like it a lot but in the end, .357 autos tend to be expensive, finicky and rare. I hope you track one down that you like.
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They may be rare now but Dan Coonan is in production again and last I heard they are hoping to be in dealers hands this summer.. It will be the coonan classic... They aren't stainless but they look pretty slick... So save yer pennies..
 
misanthropist said:
Sorry, it's really my mistake; I thought you were rejecting all non-1911 options - including the Coonan - because you were just hell-bent on an actual 1911.

But if the Coonan is close enough for you, you could wait for the new ones to come out. Unfortunately I suspect they won't be cheap, and waiting for a new gun can be a pretty slow, disappointing experience.

Current Coonans exist but are extremely rare, and even in the US, one magazine will often fetch ~$150.

I am also the owner of a .357 rifle and like it a lot but in the end, .357 autos tend to be expensive, finicky and rare. I hope you track one down that you like.
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Boy your a real peice work..i hope all works out well for you too!!

to all the others who posted many thanks for your interest in the noobie question i asked

:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
 
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