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coldblood

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I am planning to install a telescoping stock with recoil reducer on my first shotgun. I started checking those out and I want a Mesa Tactical one (duty people like those qualitywise better over Knoxx - according to Inet reviews.). Now, they have all different kinds - low-tube recoil stock, high-tube recoil stock, LEO recoil stock...
Could somebody explain what's the difference between all those stocks? What's the difference between low- and high- tube? Is autoloader require different stock setup than pump? If yes, which one for what?

Thanks.
 
Dunno about the autoloader issue, but the choice between a high or low-tube adapter comes down to your selection of sighting apparatus for your shotgun.

A bead sight or low profile ghost ring system would be best utilised in conjunction with the low-tube.
A reflex/red dot (ghost rings seated on a rail) may sit much higher & will be best utilised with the high-tube.

Gh0sT~
 
A high tube should give you better recoil control because the impulse is straight back,the stock being in line with the bore ,like on the ARs.

but if you're getting a Enidine hydraulic buffer ,I'd go low, or LEO [think they only make this for the Remmy 870.], like using Iron sights on shotgun. YMMV.


Also ,check out Mesa Tactical home page, they show all 3 stock together .
 
I have heard (can't "chef up" a reference though, so please don't ask =) that the Enidine & some autoloaders don't get along too well & might induce cycling issues.
Of course this is probably based on speculation more than hard fact, as I can't remember reading about anyone's personal experience with this combo.

I run an Enidine on my tac platform & can attest to recoil reducing properties of the hydraulic buffer tube!
Almost, makes the Knoxx Spec Ops feel like a regular stock, IMO... :nest:

Point to note for those of us who are used to "crowding" the gun & gunning with a collapsed stock (as I do with my AR), the Enidine offer quite a painfully sharp reminder of exactly how it dampens recoil: by moving swiftly backwards.
My BBB top rail has shown it's love for my cheek bone by kissing my face everytime I choose to forget this lesson!

As I employ the Enidine with the MkIII adaptor, my set-up is quite similar (in buffer tube positioning) to a high-tube Mesa.
I find the recoil to be very slight (on 2 3/4 full loads) & mostly transferred directly backwards into the buffer tube and then shoulder, with very little muzzle flip.
I wonder if a low-tube Mesa wouldn't be prone to allowing slightly more muzzle flip because of the angle (??)...

Food for thought.

Gh0st~
 
A gas operated autoloader "might" be fine with a recoil reducing stock, but for sure, a blowback design will have cycling issues. Thought I would throw that out there!

I haven't used anything other than the Knoxx, but can attest that it works very well.
 
Here's some pictures clarification

4t.jpg


LEO

34.jpg


High tube

33.jpg


Like mentioned before the LEO can be used with bead or ghost ring sights, the High tube must use rail mounted optics or BUIS. Unlike a regular stock or a Knoxx the Mesa LEO stock sits preaty high which can make it dificult fore some people a acquire a good sight picture using bead sights, if you can try one out to see if it fits you. If you are gona go with the High tube get a rail for it from http://sjhardware.com/OLS/default/ it will look like this

SJMesa20PRail_6.jpg


Although all these parts and the Enidine buffer are very good and they work great, they are expensive, but your 870 will look very cool. While your spending money on parts to reduce recoil don't over look the Vang Comp system for your barrel, it reduces recoil too and improves the pattern when using buck shot, the barrel in backbored and ports are drilled by the front. It can be done here www.tacord.com/vangcomp.htm
 
Thank you everybody for explanation. Clears things out. :)
Since I want to limit the recoil to minimum, I also liked the VCS idea however I am a bit confused. The 870P comes as improved cylinder. So by "lengthening the forcing cone" they mean to make the existing improved cylinder longer inside the barrel? Can it be achieved just by attaching a tighter choke? (not sure if 870P available with screw-in chokes - according to the remingtonle - it doesn't.:redface:).
I could not find anywhere if I can install the same stock on autoloader. I guess, I will talk to gunsmiths here just before I am commited to buy - what's are my options with the particular shotgun.
 
coldblood said:
So by "lengthening the forcing cone" they mean to make the existing improved cylinder longer inside the barrel? Can it be achieved just by attaching a tighter choke?
Click to expand...

The forcing cone is found after the chamber of the shotgun, whereas the choke is screwed into the end of the barrel.
Lengthening the forcing cone basically condenses the shot column/pattern more gradually and for a longer period of time than a regular forcing cone or a choke.
Patterns similar in spread can be acheived through use of different chokes, but the advantage of the VCS is that it can also process slugs.
I have no idea how tight of a choke I'd need to match the performance of my VCS, but I think it might be too tight to accomodate slugs...
Accuracy with slugs is also (marginally) improved through the VCS barrel.

Obviously different guns cycling different types/brands of ammo will produce vastly different results.
In that aspect, each shotgun is very unique in the way it patterns...

The other advantage to the VCS barrel job (though not mandatory for patterning performance) is the ported "business end".
As far as muzzle flip reduction & recoil go, it does help somewhat. But hey, we are talking shotguns here =)

I view the VCS barrel as an investment worthy of commitment once the shooter has begun outshooting the firearm in its' basic configuration.
I poured heaps of buck & slugs downrange before committing to the VCS barrel, and I personally believe that the experience I gained with a stock(ish) shotty is what allowed me to truly appreciate the benefits of the VCS upgrade.

Questions for you ColdBlood:
Which autoloader are you thinking of purchasing?
Why an autoloader or a pump?

Gh0sT~
 
ghostwalkah said:
The forcing cone is found after the chamber of the shotgun, whereas the choke is screwed into the end of the barrel.
Lengthening the forcing cone basically condenses the shot column/pattern more gradually and for a longer period of time than a regular forcing cone or a choke.
Patterns similar in spread can be acheived through use of different chokes, but the advantage of the VCS is that it can also process slugs.
I have no idea how tight of a choke I'd need to match the performance of my VCS, but I think it might be too tight to accomodate slugs...
Accuracy with slugs is also (marginally) improved through the VCS barrel.

Obviously different guns cycling different types/brands of ammo will produce vastly different results.
In that aspect, each shotgun is very unique in the way it patterns...

The other advantage to the VCS barrel job (though not mandatory for patterning performance) is the ported "business end".
As far as muzzle flip reduction & recoil go, it does help somewhat. But hey, we are talking shotguns here =)

I view the VCS barrel as an investment worthy of commitment once the shooter has begun outshooting the firearm in its' basic configuration.
I poured heaps of buck & slugs downrange before committing to the VCS barrel, and I personally believe that the experience I gained with a stock(ish) shotty is what allowed me to truly appreciate the benefits of the VCS upgrade.

Questions for you ColdBlood:
Which autoloader are you thinking of purchasing?
Why an autoloader or a pump?

Gh0sT~
Click to expand...

Thank you for explanation! :) I agree that I need to have the gun first, put a good amount of ammo down the range and then start thinking of customizing things to match my goals (which I hope will be finilized once I shoot MY gun more :redface:. So tired of rental guns malfunctions - it's not funny).

So you won't think I ignore your questions, I will answer them later. Gotta run. :)
 
ghostwalkah said:
Questions for you ColdBlood:
Which autoloader are you thinking of purchasing?
Why an autoloader or a pump?

Gh0sT~
Click to expand...


Autoloader I want - either Fabarm SAT 8 or Benelli M4 S90 - if I can find either in left handed model.
As for pump, I was told that it is a must have newbie shotgun that is easier to deal with malfunctions, easier to field strip and since I do not need speed until I will learn to shoot properly, pump will do just fine. So, as far as pump models I would like are - either Fabarm SADASS Trainer or Fabarm Martial Composite. However, TSE told me that they do not have left-handed models and I do not know if anybody else imports Fabarm to Canada, so, I gave up and decided to go with what is available. That's how I started researching Rem. If I do buy REM as my first pump shotgun, I will go with Rem 870P. As for Rem 11-87 - it cost almost the same as Benelli M4, so the choice is obvious. :p
 
coldblood said:
If I do buy REM as my first pump shotgun
Click to expand...

Fabarms are foreign to me. Never even handled one.
The M4 is pretty good, but costly.
The 870 is my baybee though =)
But the Police model is way overrated, IMO...
You can get a regular 870 all decked out for the money you'd lay down on a Police model. Probably with enough change to spare to get a lil bit of ammo too...

I own one of each, and lo' & behold, the Express is my go-to shotgun.

But that's just me.

Gh0st~
 
coldblood said:
Autoloader I want - either Fabarm SAT 8 or Benelli M4 S90 - if I can find either in left handed model.
As for pump, I was told that it is a must have newbie shotgun that is easier to deal with malfunctions, easier to field strip and since I do not need speed until I will learn to shoot properly, pump will do just fine. So, as far as pump models I would like are - either Fabarm SADASS Trainer or Fabarm Martial Composite. However, TSE told me that they do not have left-handed models and I do not know if anybody else imports Fabarm to Canada, so, I gave up and decided to go with what is available. That's how I started researching Rem. If I do buy REM as my first pump shotgun, I will go with Rem 870P. As for Rem 11-87 - it cost almost the same as Benelli M4, so the choice is obvious. :p
Click to expand...
Another Auto loader you might want to look at is the Mossberg 930, its about a 1/3 - 1/2 the price of the Benilli.

heres a good review of it.
http://w ww.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?167-Mossberg-930-SPX-Review
 
not the SPX ,You can get the Home security model with 18 1/2" barrel ,and trick if out with what ever sights you want, and add a Vang comp +1 mag ext,for 5 in the mag, 1 in the spout,add one more if you ghost load ,well...7 all together.

Picture of mine in your other thread "The one and the only", post #20,the middle one,

I went Vang comp GRS on mine,tritium front sight.

milarm in the chuck [edmonton] they carry mossberg shotguns.

ETA, their fairly light in weight, but have kind of a long LOP,something like 14", heard Choate pistol grip stock are a little shorter.
 
Greenhorse six said:
not the SPX ,You can get the Home security model with 18 1/2" barrel ,and trick if out with what ever sights you want, and add a Vang comp +1 mag ext,for 5 in the mag, 1 in the spout,add one more if you ghost load ,well...7 all together.

Picture of mine in your other thread "The one and the only", post #20,the middle one,

I went Vang comp GRS on mine,tritium front sight.

milarm in the chuck [edmonton] they carry mossberg shotguns.

ETA, their fairly light in weight, but have kind of a long LOP,something like 14", heard Choate pistol grip stock are a little shorter.
Click to expand...

Actually, looks really good! :cool: I need more research done I guess. Thank you so much for advice and know-how sharing! :)
 
Mossberg 590 is a great choice.......I moved from an 870 to a 590, for action shooting, the benefits being a Tang Safety, no loading gate in the way while reloading and a factory Bayonet Lug :D

As a side note, pistol grip stocks and tang safeties don't go well together, if you have your heart set on a pistol grip, but Knoxx makes a Comp Stock which is recoil reducing, if you so choose!

Mossberg.jpg
 
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