30-06 enough for moose?

Everybody knows them moose in todays woods have armor plate and a 3006 will not come close to killen a moose. You got to hit em just right with a 300 Weatherby or a 375H&H or they wont go down
 
jethunter said:
I never said the 7.62 rusky was not capable of doing the job. I said they are both 150-200 yd cartridges, and that I did not see the ballistic superiority you awarded to the 7.62x39.

Some interesting data you've collected. Winchester claims their factory 30-30 150 gr power point ammo is still doing 1685 fps at 200 yds, not 1300 fps. I'd tend to believe them rather than your data considering the physical improbability of a bullet losing 358 fps in the first 100 yards and then losing 742 in the next 100 yards... maybe the 1300 fps figure you are quoting is for 300 yards, not 200? Something is not right with your figures.

That 7.62 bullet you're using has a remarkable ballistic coefficient. What hunting bullet are you using that only lost 200 fps in 200 yards? I would have expected a 150 gr hunting bullet in the 7.62 to have retained about 1750 fps at 200 yds.


So the figures i used are different apples than your apples. By my reckoning at 200 yds the 30-30 is doing 1685 fps, and the 7.62 is doing 1750. As I said, i don't see a great ballistic superiority regardless of how much one diddles the numbers.
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okay, head hung in humiliation. I used the info from Sierra's 50th anniversary manual. and I was tired. Please allow m to verify my data.
That being said, I used a muzzle velocity of 2110fps, /energy 1482 ft/lbs.
Muzzle velocity

Distance Velocity/Energy Velocity/Energy Velocity/Energy
.30-30 RN .30-30, 170grRN 7.62X39mm
muzzle 2400/1918 2150/1722 2180/1582
100yds 2042/1636 1829/1263 1951/1268
150yds 1875/1117 1704/1096 1842/1130
200yds 1718/983 1590/954 1737/1004

So from this info, I deduce that the 7.62x39mm cartridge, properly loaded, can beat the down range external ballistics of the .30-30.
However, I know that that is about to change with Hornady's new flex tip spitzer rounds.
That being said, I apologize for my misleading info last night but will stand by my data this morning. When fired from my Rem 799, I get unbelievable performance from surplus(?) ammo. I still have 600 rounds of coveted Norinco non-corrosive rounds that I use for plinking, and enough brass to play with until forever, now.

Let's take a chunk from Frank Barnes.
"General comments: While previous military cartridges generally made suitable hunting rounds with proper bullets, many writers condemn the 7.62x39mm out of hand as being unsuited for hunting anything beyond small game, In short, they claim is is much like the M1 Carbine - fine for military use but useless for hunting. However, best 125 and 150gr spitzer loads in this cartridge typically match best .30-30 RN or FP load energy at 100yds, and at 200yds there is no comparison - this little round beats the .30-30 by 20 percent" Cartridges of the World, 11 Ed, pg 58.
 
H4831 said:
I am from BC and it was BC law I was quoting.
I didn't mention bison, because I stated for moose hunting.
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i have no idea why , but for some reason i thought you from the prairies , my bad .

the reason i mentioned bison , it is the only animal mentioned specificly requiring a minimum energy requirment , everything else is fair game for a centerfire round .
 
How many of you have actually shot a moose (or elk or deer or anything) with a 30-06 ever in your lives? Or with any rifle for that matter????
 
burnt_servo said:
i have no idea why , but for some reason i thought you from the prairies , my bad .

the reason i mentioned bison , it is the only animal mentioned specificly requiring a minimum energy requirment , everything else is fair game for a centerfire round .
Click to expand...

No, you not bad!
Your bit of a geography mistake is easily excused, because I grew up in the backwoods of heavy bush Saskatchewan and often say something about it on these threads.
I often went back to Sask in the fall, wife could visit her relation and I could hunt birds.
One of my favourite sayings was, "The best carrots, the best potatoes and the best girls, all came from Saskatchewan."
You are excused.
 
How many of you have actually shot a moose (or elk or deer or anything) with a 30-06 ever in your lives? Or with any rifle for that matter????
Click to expand...
At last count, I had taken 25 bull moose, a couple dozen of whitetail & mule deer bucks and several black bears with a .30-06 and now I use other calibers just because I like to try various guns & cartridges. In the '06, my favorite bullet for moose & deer was a 165gr soft point until the Barnes 180gr X bullet was introduced. I loaded them for a while and although they worked awesome on game, they copper fouled the hell out of my barrel so it was back to the old reliable 165gr soft point.
 
30-06 is dandy.

Buut....if you need justification for your wife as to why you need a new 375HH or 458Lott....I can write a note for you. ;)
 
BC Bigbore said:
At last count, I had taken 25 bull moose, a couple dozen of whitetail & mule deer bucks and several black bears with a .30-06 and now I use other calibers just because I like to try various guns & cartridges. In the '06, my favorite bullet for moose & deer was a 165gr soft point until the Barnes 180gr X bullet was introduced. I loaded them for a while and although they worked awesome on game, they copper fouled the hell out of my barrel so it was back to the old reliable 165gr soft point.
Click to expand...

I used to use the 165 grain Speer spitzers over top IMR 4350 30 years ago. Very accurate bullet and killed everything including many grizzly. I do not recall any animal ever getting away wounded.

These days I have been using the Barnes TSX.

I am considering switching back to Speer.
 
rookie wildcat said:
okay, head hung in humiliation. I used the info from Sierra's 50th anniversary manual. and I was tired. Please allow m to verify my data.
That being said, I used a muzzle velocity of 2110fps, /energy 1482 ft/lbs.
Muzzle velocity

Distance Velocity/Energy Velocity/Energy Velocity/Energy
.30-30 RN .30-30, 170grRN 7.62X39mm
muzzle 2400/1918 2150/1722 2180/1582
100yds 2042/1636 1829/1263 1951/1268
150yds 1875/1117 1704/1096 1842/1130
200yds 1718/983 1590/954 1737/1004

So from this info, I deduce that the 7.62x39mm cartridge, properly loaded, can beat the down range external ballistics of the .30-30.
However, I know that that is about to change with Hornady's new flex tip spitzer rounds.
That being said, I apologize for my misleading info last night but will stand by my data this morning. When fired from my Rem 799, I get unbelievable performance from surplus(?) ammo. I still have 600 rounds of coveted Norinco non-corrosive rounds that I use for plinking, and enough brass to play with until forever, now.

Let's take a chunk from Frank Barnes.
"General comments: While previous military cartridges generally made suitable hunting rounds with proper bullets, many writers condemn the 7.62x39mm out of hand as being unsuited for hunting anything beyond small game, In short, they claim is is much like the M1 Carbine - fine for military use but useless for hunting. However, best 125 and 150gr spitzer loads in this cartridge typically match best .30-30 RN or FP load energy at 100yds, and at 200yds there is no comparison - this little round beats the .30-30 by 20 percent" Cartridges of the World, 11 Ed, pg 58.
Click to expand...

There you go - those numbers are more realistic. When i read that first set of data I thought you might be a climatologist working in the global warming industry, or maybe you just weren't that good at math.... ;) Looks like this second try is more realistic data, although i still question your conclusion.

You're still claiming ballistic superiority for the 7.62 commie at 200 yds but I'm not seeing it in your data, unless you were getting confused with the 170 gr 30-30 numbers. I disregarded your 170 gr 30-30 data to make it less misleading; apples to apples, eh? Here are your 200 yd figures:
  • 150 gr. 30-30 = 1718 fps
  • 150 gr 7.62x39 = 1737 fps.
Which brings us back to the original statement that the 7.62 commie is ballistically superior to the 30-30 at practical hunting ranges. I did not agree with that statement initially and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. Neither the 30-30 or the 7.62 will ever be confused with long range hunting cartridges; both have a practical range of about 200 yards or so, and within those practical limitations neither one is markedly superior to the other. No amount of diddling with the numbers is going to change that. :)
 
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Toomanyguns said:
How many of you have actually shot a moose (or elk or deer or anything) with a 30-06 ever in your lives? Or with any rifle for that matter????
Click to expand...

...I'll up the ante...

How many of you have actually shot a moose in NB while sitting in a stand where two moose had been shot out of that morning, just after looking unsuccessfully for a match to light one of the smokes you only buy for hunting trips, with a borrowed 30-06 that you fired all but 4 rounds out of the box of 20 while sighting it in at 200 yards?
 
mikepos said:
How many of you have actually shot a moose in NB while sitting in a stand where two moose had been shot out of that morning, just after looking unsuccessfully for a match to light one of the smokes you only buy for hunting trips, with a borrowed 30-06 that you fired all but 4 rounds out of the box of 20 while sighting it in at 200 yards?
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Hundreds of times!!!:D
 
mikepos said:
...I'll up the ante...

How many of you have actually shot a moose in NB while sitting in a stand where two moose had been shot out of that morning, just after looking unsuccessfully for a match to light one of the smokes you only buy for hunting trips, with a borrowed 30-06 that you fired all but 4 rounds out of the box of 20 while sighting it in at 200 yards?
Click to expand...

R:d::D
 
mikepos said:
...I'll up the ante...

How many of you have actually shot a moose in NB while sitting in a stand where two moose had been shot out of that morning, just after looking unsuccessfully for a match to light one of the smokes you only buy for hunting trips, with a borrowed 30-06 that you fired all but 4 rounds out of the box of 20 while sighting it in at 200 yards?
Click to expand...

Even a blind pig finds the occasional truffle. :)

I've read on the internet about so many moose shot in NB that it's hard to believe there are any left. ;)
 
jethunter said:
Even a blind pig finds the occasional truffle. :)

I've read on the internet about so many moose shot in NB that it's hard to believe there are any left. ;)
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After last year's deer season I'd swear that the moose are eating the deer. Moose tracks everywhere, hardly a deer track to be seen. :eek:
 
Funny that this thread has gone on for so long. That being of course, that most members of this thread already know the obvious answer to the question.
I'm sure if you wanted /if it were legal and ethical, a well placed shot at close range with a .22LR could do a moose in. :eek:
 
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