I recently upgraded to my restricted license and was interested in trying out some of the pistol shooting sports. I have been looking all over to find information on the difference between ISPC and IDPA....so maybe someone can enlighten me. I read that alot of people take the black badge course (this is exclusive to ISPC?) just so they are allowed to draw from a holster... It just seems that every new step in the shooting sports is enshrined in some new course/fee/membership...Just reading about this course going on soon that will cost $1400 I mean wow that's a AR right there! Anyways some additional information about all this would be great. I shoot out at the EOHC here in Ottawa and apparantly missed the signup for next weekend black badge course...
IPSC....IDPA...what to try?
- Thread starter mandarb11
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You should get a hold of the Instructor...they might be able to fit you in, people drop out all the time. Go here, bottom of the page:
http://www.ipsc-ont.org/bbcourse.htm
The BB Course is a fantastic pistol safety training course, well worth the cost, IMHO!
The $1400 course is a more advanced instruction, and 7 days worth, something you could think of later down the road, and well worth it as well!
http://www.ipsc-ont.org/bbcourse.htm
The BB Course is a fantastic pistol safety training course, well worth the cost, IMHO!
The $1400 course is a more advanced instruction, and 7 days worth, something you could think of later down the road, and well worth it as well!
IPSC - Faster paced, usually a lot more rounds down range
IDPA - Slower paced, more geared to use of cover
Both are good to shoot. Black Badge course recognized by pretty much every action shooting discipline. IDPA orientation not recognized by IPSC
Get out and try both. Read the rules, and see what tickles your fancy more.
IDPA - Slower paced, more geared to use of cover
Both are good to shoot. Black Badge course recognized by pretty much every action shooting discipline. IDPA orientation not recognized by IPSC
Get out and try both. Read the rules, and see what tickles your fancy more.
??? $1400 ??? Seems excessive....
IMO - IPSC is more offensive "run & gun" competition, shooting at a target until you have the hits you want, then moving on (albeit a broad generalization)
IDPA is more planning, using cover and making your shots count for each target.
Best thing to do is hang out at a couple of matches of each and see what style you like better.
IDPA is more planning, using cover and making your shots count for each target.
Best thing to do is hang out at a couple of matches of each and see what style you like better.
I agree, I've been considering IPSC but have seen some of the fees and add that with travel costs to get there and I find it hard to not just spend that money on extra ammo to practice more.
Some of the prior posts are pretty accurate, plus my 2 cents:
IPSC, you are scored on your time and hits (firm numbers).
IDPA does the same plus adds "subjective" penalties for a variety of infractions (kinda like figure scating -no offence-, if you get the Russian judge your screwed).
IPSC, you are scored on your time and hits (firm numbers).
IDPA does the same plus adds "subjective" penalties for a variety of infractions (kinda like figure scating -no offence-, if you get the Russian judge your screwed).
Ahh. I was going to say.
BB I thought was something like $170 or so.
If you are seriously looking at action shooting, you may also want to look into reloading where you can cut ammunition cost per round to under 50% store bought.
I won't say you save money as you just end up shooting more ammunition
There is nothing "subjective" about the penalties anymore than a finger/muzzle or foot foul violation are in IPSC. Your analogy could not be more inappropriate. IDPA does not score "hits" the same way as IPSC as you suggest but converts all hits back to time.
Down Zero = Zero Seconds
-1 = .5 Second
-3 = 1.5 seconds
-5 = 2.5 seconds
Take Care
Bob
dinsdale
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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It is a typo, fee is $170 IIRC.
Take the BB and shoot both.
They both are a lot of fun.
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I assume the $1400 course you're reffering to is the one Tritium and Gunslinger are putting on.
To be clear...it has nothing to do with the Black Badge. I'm sure that the participants will develope skills that will be usefull in IPSC (especially 3 gun) but that's the only connetcion.
The BB course is $170 and that includes your first year membership.
To be clear...it has nothing to do with the Black Badge. I'm sure that the participants will develope skills that will be usefull in IPSC (especially 3 gun) but that's the only connetcion.
The BB course is $170 and that includes your first year membership.
Ahh. I was going to say.
BB I thought was something like $170 or so.
If you are seriously looking at action shooting, you may also want to look into reloading where you can cut ammunition cost per round to under 50% store bought.
I won't say you save money as you just end up shooting more ammunition
Already in the process of doing that
To get to the nearest match I gotta spend $120 in travel costs + time also though.. so trying to get a buddy into it so we can split the costs. It's definitely something I want to do, as well as 3-gun, but money is tight so gotta find ways to work it out..
Yes that is the one I was reffering to, not in conjuction deliberately with BB, but enlightening as to the expenses incurred to practice/learn skills. What I want is to improve my skills in a practical method (no Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon roll while shooting 2 inch groups! lol). So either would be fine? BB is recognized by both sports but the course only gives me membership in one? I notice there seems to be a little animosity between the two camps, I just want to improve my skills I want nothing to do with the politics! I appreciate everyones input.....one last one to throw out there do the pistol skill translate for other things like service pistol? I have to say there is just so many ways to go about shooting a pistol!
Scoring by accuracy and raw time is cut and dry, it is the procedurals which
are dependant on the RO's opinions (aka appropriate amount of exposure while using cover).
And no I don't shoot IPSC, I'm a defensive pistol kinda guy. My personal choice
Yes that is the one I was reffering to, not in conjuction deliberately with BB, but enlightening as to the expenses incurred to practice/learn skills. What I want is to improve my skills in a practical method (no Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon roll while shooting 2 inch groups! lol). So either would be fine? BB is recognized by both sports but the course only gives me membership in one? I notice there seems to be a little animosity between the two camps, I just want to improve my skills I want nothing to do with the politics! I appreciate everyones input.....one last one to throw out there do the pistol skill translate for other things like service pistol? I have to say there is just so many ways to go about shooting a pistol!
Animosity is when the egos of IPSC and IDPA aficionados collide. Personally, do whatever you think will be more fun for you. I know people who used to shoot both and now found that IMSHA (silhouette) was their newest love. Go figure.
You can never learn enough. The keys to all is practice practice practice. If you cannot practice, your skill atrophies even if your knowledge does not.
There may be openings in the BB course this weekend, but I wouldn't recommend a BB course until you've had a chance to purchase and fire your selected pistol at least 500-1000 rounds, and can manipulate all the controls flawlessly. The BB course is as much about safety on the line as it is about the Rules and the Course of Fire, and fumbling around an unfamiliar pistol will at best distract you from the course, and at worst cause you a safety infraction or accidental discharge. On the BB course I took, we had a gent who clearly wasn't comfortable with his gun - mag fell out, couldn't find the slide lock, fumbling with the holster, etc. After the first day, he was asked to come back again for a later course.
If you want to see how it works, on the cheap, EOHC has a practice on Range 3 (farthest in) most Sundays, from about 10:00-2:00 (probably not this weekend, because of the BB). The RA Centre also has practices on its range most Saturday evenings from about 7:00-on. If you like what you see, download and read the Handgun Rulebook (don't worry about rifle and pistol, but they're fun to get into later).
You'll need Eye and Ear protection, a pistol belt that attaches to your waist at three or more points (we use a velcro inner belt, worn normally through the belt loops, then the hard outer belt attaches all the way around), minimum four magazines and eligible mag pouches, and a permitted holster (the Rules have details). Practice "dry firing" with no live ammo around - mag changes, double-action, single action, hold-open, etc. Search on "IPSC" and "Todd Jarrett" on You Tube, to get an idea of how things work, and to pick up tips.
Once you've got your gear, and you know your pistol (controls, feel, and you can hit a 8.5x11-inch piece of paper at 15 yards consistently with slow fire), sign up and have some fun.
Don't let all the above get you down - it's not as long a road as you think. I started toying with the idea of getting my PAL or RPAL in Feb 2009, and had the BB course completed in November, only because there seems to be fewer courses during the Summer (during which time, I shot the pistol as much as I could afford).
Are you a member of any of the local Clubs or Ranges? If we're in the same neck of the woods, I'm always up for a day on the range!
If you want to see how it works, on the cheap, EOHC has a practice on Range 3 (farthest in) most Sundays, from about 10:00-2:00 (probably not this weekend, because of the BB). The RA Centre also has practices on its range most Saturday evenings from about 7:00-on. If you like what you see, download and read the Handgun Rulebook (don't worry about rifle and pistol, but they're fun to get into later).
You'll need Eye and Ear protection, a pistol belt that attaches to your waist at three or more points (we use a velcro inner belt, worn normally through the belt loops, then the hard outer belt attaches all the way around), minimum four magazines and eligible mag pouches, and a permitted holster (the Rules have details). Practice "dry firing" with no live ammo around - mag changes, double-action, single action, hold-open, etc. Search on "IPSC" and "Todd Jarrett" on You Tube, to get an idea of how things work, and to pick up tips.
Once you've got your gear, and you know your pistol (controls, feel, and you can hit a 8.5x11-inch piece of paper at 15 yards consistently with slow fire), sign up and have some fun.
Don't let all the above get you down - it's not as long a road as you think. I started toying with the idea of getting my PAL or RPAL in Feb 2009, and had the BB course completed in November, only because there seems to be fewer courses during the Summer (during which time, I shot the pistol as much as I could afford).
Are you a member of any of the local Clubs or Ranges? If we're in the same neck of the woods, I'm always up for a day on the range!
I would only recommend a Black Badge if you want to shoot IPSC. If all you want is some type of holster qualification...it's way overkill.
Ottawa has active groups in IPSC, IDPA. Cowboy Action and Bullseye...just pick your poison
Ottawa has active groups in IPSC, IDPA. Cowboy Action and Bullseye...just pick your poison
Yes that is the one I was reffering to, not in conjuction deliberately with BB, but enlightening as to the expenses incurred to practice/learn skills. What I want is to improve my skills in a practical method (no Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon roll while shooting 2 inch groups! lol). So either would be fine? BB is recognized by both sports but the course only gives me membership in one? I notice there seems to be a little animosity between the two camps, I just want to improve my skills I want nothing to do with the politics! I appreciate everyones input.....one last one to throw out there do the pistol skill translate for other things like service pistol? I have to say there is just so many ways to go about shooting a pistol!
Excellent info thanks. I have a G17 with a Blackhawk holster (not allowed to use the holster at the range until I have done the course apparently) and shoot out at the EOHC, if you have time maybe you can show me the ropes! I e-mailed Steve who is running the black badge course he said it was full 2 months ago (by the way he does not like Glocks! lol). Nonetheless I only have my 2 factory mags as I never knew there was a requirement of 4! Looks like I will have more time to get more stuff that I need!
I would only recommend a Black Badge if you want to shoot IPSC. If all you want is some type of holster qualification...it's way overkill.
Ottawa has active groups in IPSC, IDPA. Cowboy Action and Bullseye...just pick your poison
Hmm interesting what other qualification courses are there? It would be nice to pratice with my holster as I dont think there will be another BB course for awhile!
Scoring by accuracy and raw time is cut and dry, it is the procedurals which
are dependant on the RO's opinions (aka appropriate amount of exposure while using cover).
And no I don't shoot IPSC, I'm a defensive pistol kinda guy. My personal choice
Exposure to cover ie the Cover call is the easiest of calls to make either you have 50% of your upper body (I have yet to see this called) and 50% of your lower body behind cover or you don't. In the latters case it is almost always the foot hanging out. This is no more subjective than calling a finger violation or foot foul in IPSC. Now that said some SO's, who are volunteers don't always get into position to make the call but that doesn't make it subjective or reflect on how the calls are made. The rule is clearly defined in the rule book and you can't ask for anyting more than that.
I hear this comment frequently by those who either don't understand how the call is to be made, by those who don't shoot IDPA or folks who just can't deal with the fact life isn't perfect. Mistakes can be made both by the shooter and the SO. Sometimes life sucks. The good news is most often the sun comes up the next morning, nobody is about to starve based upon the shooting results and most of us who shoot the sport are out for a good time. I have shot enough IPSC and IDPA to know on balance the volunteer RO/SO's do a very good job at officiating matches as fair as they can. LIke strikes and balls in baseball if the SO calls a PE for cover live with it and move on, it is his call.
Take Care
Bob
