Sage EBR stock for canadians?
- Thread starter wildphil24
- Start date
Unobtainium?
Vaporware?
Frustrating , isn't it??
I guess there IS a market for a made in Canada cheese grater.
I stopped by the shop today to check out where the machinests were with our munimula M14 Cheese grater stock project.
They are getting closer and closer.
detailed the back pistol grip/buttstock section, and firmed up the design for the handguard/full length rail.
Patience is a virtue,
[;{)
LAZ 1
Vaporware?
Frustrating , isn't it??
I guess there IS a market for a made in Canada cheese grater.
I stopped by the shop today to check out where the machinests were with our munimula M14 Cheese grater stock project.
They are getting closer and closer.
detailed the back pistol grip/buttstock section, and firmed up the design for the handguard/full length rail.
Patience is a virtue,
[;{)
LAZ 1
The folks at SAGE have been listening and a new stock in the works that will accept a heavy barrel and they also have a prototype that uses the Magpul PRS made for the G3. It may end up being a factory folding butt stockThe prototype is pictured near the very end of the video posted above.
These stocks comming out of Fabsports are the new Cali legal stocks that are undermachined so that they are unable to have variable stock adjustments.
When they get here they go to a machine shop that machines the notches on the stock so that they can be fully adjustable.
Correct me if i'm wrong
When they get here they go to a machine shop that machines the notches on the stock so that they can be fully adjustable.
Correct me if i'm wrong
Where did that info come from? Doesn't match what I have heard, but I've not seen the stocks in eprson yet, so I can't say it isn't true?
OMFG!!!!
my eyes ...
MY EYES!!!!
Please Gawd,
make it go away!!!
A SHINY TWO TONE "STYLIN" BATTLE RIFLE THAT IS EVEN FUGLIER THAN OURS!!!
Only people with VERY teensy tiny "GIRLY" hands will like that pistol grip to trigger dimension.
Sure it looks good,
real "stylish",
without any "FUGLY" gap between the trigger guard and the front of the PG,
BUT
even with an oversized PG,
you will be using the first knuckle of your trigger finger to pull the trigger.
And that is sure conducive to good shootin'.
PLUS,
how now do you pull out a TIGHT trigger guard to take down the action??
Which is why we put our pistol grip on our "FUGLY" munimula m14 cheese grater stock back a considerable distance from the trigger. Sure, it may not look as "stylish" as it could,
but it is properly placed for best ergonomics and practicality.
Just one clarification of my use of the word "FUGLY".
As any decent engineer can tell you,
"FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION".
Aesthetics and style and "### appeal" may be part of the marketing for a ???PRACTICAL??? Munimula M14 cheese grater,
HOWEVER,
in my perhaps simple little mind,
the form that is the MOST functional by my KISS definition,
is the form that is INHERENTLY the most beautiful
As the great philosohper Forrest Gump once said,
"FUGLY IS AS FUGLY DOES"
and
"Beauty is only skin deep,
but FUGLY goes all the way down to the bone".
If our [admittedly UGLY] munimula M14 cheese grater stock weighs and balances like a TROY, has the solid one piece monolithic foundation of the AKM, and has MOST of the best features of the rest of the competitition,
AND,
sells for less,
why then we will have a winner.
I personally don't care if it is almost as "FUGLY " as that Gawdawful abortion seen above ...
but at least we will have placed the pistol grip in the right place to actually shoot it properly.
Of course,
as with any free opinion expressed on the internet,
it may be worth less than you paid for it,
and
'YPMMV!!
[;{)
LAZ 1
opiniated old fart,
and proud of it!
my eyes ...
MY EYES!!!!
Please Gawd,
make it go away!!!
A SHINY TWO TONE "STYLIN" BATTLE RIFLE THAT IS EVEN FUGLIER THAN OURS!!!
Only people with VERY teensy tiny "GIRLY" hands will like that pistol grip to trigger dimension.
Sure it looks good,
real "stylish",
without any "FUGLY" gap between the trigger guard and the front of the PG,
BUT
even with an oversized PG,
you will be using the first knuckle of your trigger finger to pull the trigger.
And that is sure conducive to good shootin'.
PLUS,
how now do you pull out a TIGHT trigger guard to take down the action??
Which is why we put our pistol grip on our "FUGLY" munimula m14 cheese grater stock back a considerable distance from the trigger. Sure, it may not look as "stylish" as it could,
but it is properly placed for best ergonomics and practicality.
Just one clarification of my use of the word "FUGLY".
As any decent engineer can tell you,
"FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION".
Aesthetics and style and "### appeal" may be part of the marketing for a ???PRACTICAL??? Munimula M14 cheese grater,
HOWEVER,
in my perhaps simple little mind,
the form that is the MOST functional by my KISS definition,
is the form that is INHERENTLY the most beautiful
As the great philosohper Forrest Gump once said,
"FUGLY IS AS FUGLY DOES"
and
"Beauty is only skin deep,
but FUGLY goes all the way down to the bone".
If our [admittedly UGLY] munimula M14 cheese grater stock weighs and balances like a TROY, has the solid one piece monolithic foundation of the AKM, and has MOST of the best features of the rest of the competitition,
AND,
sells for less,
why then we will have a winner.
I personally don't care if it is almost as "FUGLY " as that Gawdawful abortion seen above ...
but at least we will have placed the pistol grip in the right place to actually shoot it properly.
Of course,
as with any free opinion expressed on the internet,
it may be worth less than you paid for it,
and
'YPMMV!!
[;{)
LAZ 1
opiniated old fart,
and proud of it!
Claven said:
While I like some of the things the AKM acocmplished, my biggest beefs with it are/were:
1) You have to undo a LOT of fasteners to get the rifle stripped for cleaning.
YEP!!! IMHO,
this is the biggest thing wrong with an otherwise pretty decent design.
Plus of course, I chopped my AKM hand guard and fore arm to remove some of the excessive weight forward.
2) Unlike on the sage, wherever you have an oblique finish, the AKM CNC program opted for a ball cutter making a pass every 1/4" of cut. This left a LOT of semi-unfinished surfaces, particularly back by the pistol grip. It made the whole thing look/feel cheap. Sage gets around this by using a CNC rig with more axis and cuts the oblique surfaces by rotating either the cutter or the workpiece and milling a flat rather than "cheating" in the G-code by trying to blend ball cutter passes.
YEP! you could actually do yourself a serious injury with the sharp edge around the puistol grip.
3) the stock is not in-line with the bore, not even close. I suspect this is to keep the factory irons, but frankly, I think the Troy system produces a more controllable shooting platform than either the Sage or AKM - though I wish the Troy used the Sage op-rod guide system rather than that adjustable gas cylinder ferrule system they've devised. The sage/AKM system is just plain better in this sense.
YEP! PLUS, because they tried to keep the original M14 sights available as BUIS,
the cheek weld and optic height were not optimised,
4) The AKM fell short by not providing cheap kydex hand protector like the Sage did. Having an under-rail is cool and all, but they didn't take into account the 90% of shooters who are not going to mount a VFG and would like a well thought our option for resting the forestock on the palm of the hand. MAYBE!!! We looked real hard at removing the back of the lower rail, but that rail does more than just provide a convenient plkace to hang the kitchen sink, a battery charge, and a nuclear reactor.
The rail acts as an integral stiffener, acting somewhat like an I beam to add immense rigidity to the forend. We would rather cover the rear section with a plastic half round pic rail add on, than remove the structural integrity the rail adds here.
5) The AKM could have/should have added a simple tension adjustment system for the trigger group like the Troy has. Easy to do and helps fit rifles with slight variations in geometry. YEP!!! One thing about the AKM, was that it was not optimised to take the Chinese receivers, many of which have a slight machining irregularity along the bottom of the receiver, which prevents proper seating of the receiver into the stock. Troy's two screws at the trigger guard bedding location are not really necessary for a properly machined reciever,
but,
it doesn't hurt to have a bit of adjustability built in here to take up play or wear.
PS: since you have OFFERED some valid and useful feed back,
I am putting you on the list of "first responders",
who may just get one of the early prototypes to play with as a tester.
[;{)
LAZ 1
While I like some of the things the AKM acocmplished, my biggest beefs with it are/were:
1) You have to undo a LOT of fasteners to get the rifle stripped for cleaning.
YEP!!! IMHO,
this is the biggest thing wrong with an otherwise pretty decent design.
Plus of course, I chopped my AKM hand guard and fore arm to remove some of the excessive weight forward.
2) Unlike on the sage, wherever you have an oblique finish, the AKM CNC program opted for a ball cutter making a pass every 1/4" of cut. This left a LOT of semi-unfinished surfaces, particularly back by the pistol grip. It made the whole thing look/feel cheap. Sage gets around this by using a CNC rig with more axis and cuts the oblique surfaces by rotating either the cutter or the workpiece and milling a flat rather than "cheating" in the G-code by trying to blend ball cutter passes.
YEP! you could actually do yourself a serious injury with the sharp edge around the puistol grip.
3) the stock is not in-line with the bore, not even close. I suspect this is to keep the factory irons, but frankly, I think the Troy system produces a more controllable shooting platform than either the Sage or AKM - though I wish the Troy used the Sage op-rod guide system rather than that adjustable gas cylinder ferrule system they've devised. The sage/AKM system is just plain better in this sense.
YEP! PLUS, because they tried to keep the original M14 sights available as BUIS,
the cheek weld and optic height were not optimised,
4) The AKM fell short by not providing cheap kydex hand protector like the Sage did. Having an under-rail is cool and all, but they didn't take into account the 90% of shooters who are not going to mount a VFG and would like a well thought our option for resting the forestock on the palm of the hand. MAYBE!!! We looked real hard at removing the back of the lower rail, but that rail does more than just provide a convenient plkace to hang the kitchen sink, a battery charge, and a nuclear reactor.
The rail acts as an integral stiffener, acting somewhat like an I beam to add immense rigidity to the forend. We would rather cover the rear section with a plastic half round pic rail add on, than remove the structural integrity the rail adds here.
5) The AKM could have/should have added a simple tension adjustment system for the trigger group like the Troy has. Easy to do and helps fit rifles with slight variations in geometry. YEP!!! One thing about the AKM, was that it was not optimised to take the Chinese receivers, many of which have a slight machining irregularity along the bottom of the receiver, which prevents proper seating of the receiver into the stock. Troy's two screws at the trigger guard bedding location are not really necessary for a properly machined reciever,
but,
it doesn't hurt to have a bit of adjustability built in here to take up play or wear.
PS: since you have OFFERED some valid and useful feed back,
I am putting you on the list of "first responders",
who may just get one of the early prototypes to play with as a tester.
[;{)
LAZ 1
Last edited:
Let us know if you hear back.Yeah, I put in an advance order too but when you ordered it did it say sold out at the checkout? When did you order it if you don't mind me asking? I ordered mine on Monday.
Did they charge your credit card yet? Just wondering cuz there may be hope for others to put in a preorder now...
I'll call them Monday to confirm.
Did they charge your credit card yet? Just wondering cuz there may be hope for others to put in a preorder now...
I'll call them Monday to confirm.
Wrong
The stocks are exported as non collapsable to meet ITAR requirements.
They are then Canadianized to eight-position collapsable.
The undermachined rails are useless as the six positions do not meet up with the locking systemStrangly enough, the shotgun stocks fall under Dept. of Commerce and are allowed in without a problem. They just have to be ordered in gargantuan quantities. (yep.. they're in Canada too)
Wrong
The stocks are exported as non collapsable to meet ITAR requirements.
They are then Canadianized to eight-position collapsable.
Strangly enough, the shotgun stocks fall under Dept. of Commerce and are allowed in without a problem. They just have to be ordered in gargantuan quantities. (yep.. they're in Canada too)
Can anyone actually verify any of this? Anyone have a contact at Fabsports? When I spoke with someone over the phone yesterday there was no mention of these stocks needing to be "canadianized". Just curious.
Cheers,
f
