trap loads to slugs?

Quigly said:
You just want to get into a philosophical discussion of right and wrong, don't you. Were you captain of the high school debating team? OK, let me make my position clear. Firstly, half measures are not right for me. Secondly, deciding what's right is ultimately up to the individual.

No, using factory ammuntion cannot be classified under what's "right", but what is best under the circumstances. Further, it does not compromise my rule of no half measures. I made black powder, when I was a kid, but would I now make it and load it into a muzzleloader? No, not under the current circumstances, where I have and abundance of powders to choose from. Making black powder, and slug loads from trap loads might be something good to know if circumstances were ever to change, but for the time being, I'll do what's best.
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I just think it is ironic that you speak about making slug ammunition the "right" way, but end up using factory ammo.;)

Without experimentation, nobody would be shooting a gun today. People have been stuffing all sorts of things in shotshells for along time. Using the same weight slug as shot, this experiment is relatively benign, I think.:)
 
ok, ok,
so when u guys have some or a batch of shells that u suspect a problem and u have to open them up, how about do u do this or just cut them open and sacrifice the hull?
 
Gatehouse, no more ironic than you playing with makeshift slugs for the range, and buying factory slug loads for hunting. I'm satisfied that I've produced quality loads, but in this case factory loads beat them hands down. Would I hesitate to use my loads for hunting, no. If someday that's all I have I would use them with the utmost confidence. :)

People experimented because there was a need, or they wanted to make something better. Making slug loads out of trap load satifies neither criteria.:nest:

In answer to you Mckutzy, the shot cup is the most difficult part to get out once the shell has been crimped. It's difficult enough that I would sacrifice the hull rather than try to extract it. Once fired hulls are cheap and easy to get.
 
Quigly said:
Gatehouse, no more ironic than you playing with makeshift slugs for the range, and buying factory slug loads for hunting. I'm satisfied that I've produced quality loads, but in this case factory loads beat them hands down. Would I hesitate to use my loads for hunting, no. If someday that's all I have I would use them with the utmost confidence. :)
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Luckily, I don't have to hunt with a shotgun. But for blasting at the range, trap load slugs have some merit. But I'm not preaching about "doing it right" either. ;)

People experimented because there was a need, or they wanted to make something better. Making slug loads out of trap load satifies neither criteria.:nest:
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Many shooters would like to have cheap access to slugs for fun shooting, melting down trap loads could supply that need without a person having to get tooled up for reloading shotshells.

If it can be proven that doing so is unsafe, I'll change my opinion.
 
I understand that not everyone wants to or has the opportunity to get into shotgun reloading. I also understand that everyones idea of fun is different, safety not withstanding, sometimes. I can load slugs, and I get a lot of satifaction from casting and loading slugs. Of course the ultimate would be to get a deer with said slugs regardless of whether one has to hunt with a shotgun or not. I guess it has something to do with the whole idea of being self sufficient. No, I'm not a survivalist. Not that there's anything wrong with being a survivalist. ;)
 
Many shooters would like to have cheap access to slugs for fun shooting, melting down trap loads could supply that need without a person having to get tooled up for reloading shotshells. [/QUOTE]

well, this is why i was posting. im into shooting blackpowder and have been for good wile, although i know there is vast difference between them, i got my loads down to about .10c a shot.
i looking to get something to come close to that in the shotgun department.
i know there is an inherent danger of reloading anything, but i have confidence of what i was thinking of doing, and the part i was having trouble with was the holding of the payload in with the wad column in the shell.
 
I don't think I'm the person to answer the question to your satifaction. I have a MEC shotgun shell reloading press. Once I have loaded the powder and the shotcup I drop the slug into the shotcup, then into the press it goes for a crimp. There are only two ways I know of to crimp a shotshell loaded with slugs, and that would be to apply either a star crimp, or I believe what is called a roll crimp. Both require a press. Any other method that you come up with would be classified as new and innovative. You realize that if you are able to fit a slug into a shotcup you would most likely be dealing with a sabot, because it will fly out the barrel inside the shotcup. the slug will be smaller than bore diameter, and will most likely be innacurate because there is nothing to give it a spin, unless that is you fire it out of a rifled barrel.
 
Quigly said:
and will most likely be innacurate because there is nothing to give it a spin, unless that is you fire it out of a rifled barrel.
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You, do, of course, realize, that rifled slugs do not spin, correct?

I'm sure you know this, but for others who may not, the rifled slug, is only rifled, that it may swage down to fit through whatever choke it needs to fit through. Rifled slugs are intended for smoothbores, they do not spin, therefore they do not get the accuracy of sabot slugs through a rifled barrel.

If you doubt the accuracy possiblities, watch Yman's videos, he has a bunch, and compared that to typical results through a smoothbore wiith rifled slugs. Comparing sabots to Yman's work, is like comparing a corvette to a hyundai, he's made a very affordable alternative, that works, not to the high standards and expectations of those with more $$$ and more available selection, but to those who can think outside the box, and aren't afraid to experiment.

On the "doing it right" argument, I just want to mention, that Bruce (H4831) claims to have never owned a reloading manual. I cannot think of another person here who I'd trust more for reloading advice. There is something to be said for those who go by their own experience, rather than what some other guy wrote in a book.
 
Gatehouse said:
If it can be proven that doing so is unsafe, I'll change my opinion.
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Bueller, Bueller??


Bueller!?!?




Given how obviously unsafe some members feel it to be, myself, Gate, and a whole whack of others, just would like to see a little proof. I'm taking a trap load, using the same weight charge, same weight payload, through a modern shotgun, using an appropriately cast size slug, and not expecting MOA at 100y. Which part of that is unreasonable, unsafe?

Let's be entirely fair, most of us, looking at doing this, would be buying proper moulds, very likely, for a lot, our very first casting moulds. So, there's no point in looking at Yman's somewhat improvised casting set up, as any reason why it is unsafe for a North American, who has fairly free access to proper casting tools. Comparing the cost of primers, powder, and any kind of wad you would need, given that this method provides ALL necessary shotshell components, I can't see a big argument on using proper supplies from scratch saving any serious coin.
 
curtmg said:
I'm taking a trap load, using the same weight charge, same weight payload, through a modern shotgun, using an appropriately cast size slug, and not expecting MOA at 100y. Which part of that is unreasonable, unsafe?
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Nothing is unsafe. It's the same thing.

The trap load acts like a slug until it is five feet out of the muzzle. There is absolutely zero difference between when it came from the factory and when you cast it into a slug until it is out of the muzzle.
 
Until proven that it isn't an unsafe practice then it's not something I'd do. But then I'm not so impoverished that I can't afford slugs when I need them.

I don't care what someone else does with their own guns by themselves. I do care however when some retard sits down at the bench beside mine at the range with a bunch of loads he whipped up based on some dumbass suggestion he read on the Internet.
 
Shifty2 said:
Nothing is unsafe. It's the same thing.

The trap load acts like a slug until it is five feet out of the muzzle. There is absolutely zero difference between when it came from the factory and when you cast it into a slug until it is out of the muzzle.
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A trap load which is made up of many small pellets is still able to compress when going through a choked barrel. A slug does not or at least very minimal. Thats why slug barrels have no choke. There is a lot of misinformation floating around here. Butchering trap loads to make slugs really is asinine. Considering you can set up a loading outfit for about $100 or less. For the average hunter who shoots 20 rounds a year,factory ammo is still cheap and safe.
 
You learn something new every day. I had heard through word of mouth that rifling on a slug imparted spin, but evidently that is not the case. Rifled slugs have rifling to keep pressures down if fired through a choke of a smoothbore. In my defence I must say that I had never investigated the purpose of rifling on a slug beyond word of mouth because I've never really considered rifled slugs and smooth bores as an option.

Yes you can make slug loads out of target loads, and yes they may be safe, but still I see neither the need nor the purpose in producing such loads. Just to be safe at the range, if you are going to fire these slugs, make other shooters aware of your intentions, so that they have the option of moving out of harms way, if they so desire. ;) One thing that really does worry me is the possibilty that someone will decide to use these loads for hunting with the very real possibility that some animal will be wounded and end up dying a lingering death.
 
Winchester bulk shot from canadian tire are nice to turn into slugs, I do it differently though. They come to about 30 cents a shot, being 30$ for 100 shells. Here's my way of getting cheap slug practice and they work fine in my mossberg.



I'm /k/anadian, posting this on another board. Again, this is for information only, I do NOT recommend modifying ammo in ANY WAY.

With that out of the way, these are a lot of fun, not much work, and great for practice. Not a working slug for anything else than paper though, unless you used a bigger shot that would have 12" in gel, etc, do not use against anything but targets, again, this is for information only.
 
Just so we're all on the same page here, I would never recommend the trap load modded slugs as hunting ammunition, either. For hunting purposes (1-2 boxes per year, incuding sighting in), retail slugs are decently affordable.

For a day of blasting and targets at the range however, a lowly civil servant such as myself, is often on the hunt for ways to stretch my shooting dollars to their reasonable limits. I would gladly pound gongs, paper, and kill any manner of milk jug, with these.
 
well 'Clay thankyou for your comments, although not the tone i was expecting in an inquiry with more knowledgeable people about the subject of reloading.

I will say that im not so impoverished that this is a must need item, but what is/are the best/safest/easiest to get'er done the cheapest way.
Also our friend Mr Y-man of the original thought and experiments, does not look like that he is of this sort. The man has expressed that he had some formal military training for many years, with the use of various firearms. His original shotgun in the blog was a model that in his country cost about $1000usd (alot of money there i understand). He had documented this on an American web blog with pictures and videos on Youtube (im guessing he has also a camera and a computer). Y-man expressed that slugs in his country are hard to get if not impossible.
Here in Canada slugs are just damn expensive. (potentially several dollars each and usually in packs of 5, but if your willing to dish out for this, by allmeans havatter... im not)
"impoverished" im not too sure where that came from.

With all due respect, i dont take too kindly You calling out to someone and/or myself as a retard, as for me i have not yet attempted this. i came here for advice. i would hope for u that a fellow shooter questions your own reloading abilities for fear of potential unknown dangers as per your own advice.

I dont reload, nor shoot reloads, but for the record i warn my bench-mates at the range when im shooting my flintlock muzzleloader if they have any concerns of me shooting next to them, i usually dont have any problems. its about shy short of reloading a cartridge but with technology about 300 years old.

As all of us here we would like to save a few dollars on shooting, and my oringinal thought was by any chance could a safe acceptable way, could this idea be done, of course cheaply, lead me to here to gain a better idea of what is going on with this, from more knowledgeable people.

thank you all for the comments thus far, clearly i will have to research this further.

if anyone is in bc and would like to make up some slugs for about the price of a trap load, im interested in buying.
 
Claybuster said:
Until proven that it isn't an unsafe practice then it's not something I'd do. But then I'm not so impoverished that I can't afford slugs when I need them.

I don't care what someone else does with their own guns by themselves. I do care however when some retard sits down at the bench beside mine at the range with a bunch of loads he whipped up based on some dumbass suggestion he read on the Internet.
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How can it be proven that it isn't an unsafe practice? Even the major manufacturers have boners every now and then. Look at the 17 HMR fiasco Remington went through with the 597, the CBC Brazillian 7.62 rounds loaded with pistol powder, and how many other recalls have there been over the years? You've been around long enough to know, the only way to absolutely say that any one round is to absolutely safe to fire, is to have already survived firing it. It's all about acceptable risk, especially when you are doing any nature of metallic or shotshell reloading task. If this risk is to you unacceptable, then so be it, that is fair. If retards with dumbass loads from internet trouble you so, than I can only assume, after I get through the grilling about what I'm shooting, we'd likely not be sitting on benches next to each other anyway, and that's ok.
 
curtmg said:
How can it be proven that it isn't an unsafe practice? Even the major manufacturers have boners every now and then. Look at the 17 HMR fiasco Remington went through with the 597, the CBC Brazillian 7.62 rounds loaded with pistol powder, and how many other recalls have there been over the years? You've been around long enough to know, the only way to absolutely say that any one round is to absolutely safe to fire, is to have already survived firing it. It's all about acceptable risk, especially when you are doing any nature of metallic or shotshell reloading task. If this risk is to you unacceptable, then so be it, that is fair. If retards with dumbass loads from internet trouble you so, than I can only assume, after I get through the grilling about what I'm shooting, we'd likely not be sitting on benches next to each other anyway, and that's ok.
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You are right. It's about acceptable risk. The way to reach acceptable is to develop loads under the conditions similar to what the reloading and ammunition companies use. This involves using pressure testing equipment under controlled conditions to reach a more certain conclusion. Even then there are no absolutes as I've had problems with factory loads and loading book recipes.

There are many factors in whether a load is safe or not including hull construction, wad type, powder and shot weight. Starting dinking around with any of these and you enter the realm of the unknown. There are many proven loads in existence but feel free if you want to risk your gun and face with an unproven idea. I'd just prefer you did it by yourself and not where I'm shooting.
 
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