Type 97 Classification Issues - PART TWO

lineofsight said:
...The T97 were produced specifically so they could not be converted to full auto...
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You have knowledge of the design process that went on in China?

The RCMP have not revealed the details of their conversion system.
No one with access to a T97 has commented on the trigger mechanism, and how semi auto only it actually is.
In the absence of any specific design details, ease of convertibility is speculation.
This is why at least one court reference is important.
If the RCMP can demonstrate that the mechanism is flawed from the standpoint of ease of conversion, their decision will stand.
 
lineofsight said:
Can you please support your assertion that "There is evidence pointing that these guns were readily convertible to full auto"? Where is the evidence?

The T97 were produced specifically so they could not be converted to full auto - they are not a rifle that has been modified, they are manufactured as semi auto only.

As for "nothing else" can you say "test case"... as in if can change registration with little in the way of due process and access public funds for reimbursement for the T97 then can use the same strategy for Mini 14, M305, Tavor, CX4... "we wont tell you how in the interest of public safety but these can easily be converted so here is tax payers' money now surrender your firearms."
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Because I have talked to friends in the industry who actually have some idea of whats going on with this since the beginning and they confirmed this.

Splatter said:
Don't forget the recently announced High Standard model 10 shotguns also have suddenly become prohibited for the same reason. And the High Standard 10A, and 10B have been restricted since the late '70's or early 80's
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I haven't heard anything about this. Are you sure this isn't just the RCMP being hell-bent on not letting anything bullpup get into the country and our absolutely terrible laws surrounding them?
 
so why would they solely choose the Type 97 and nothing else?
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1 reason might be the price tag of a T97.. there will be a lot more of them in the hands of the public versus, say, a Swiss arms, SL8, Tavor, etc.

Or maybe they can be converted to FA in a matter of minutes, but if that is the case they are prohib and the method to do so is not a matter of 'national security'
 
MechaStalin said:
Splatter said:
Don't forget the recently announced High Standard model 10 shotguns also have suddenly become prohibited for the same reason. And the High Standard 10A, and 10B have been restricted since the late '70's or early 80's
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I haven't heard anything about this. Are you sure this isn't just the RCMP being hell-bent on not letting anything bullpup get into the country and our absolutely terrible laws surrounding them?
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"letting anything bullpup get into the country"? Dude, the High Standard 10B has been discontinued since about 1980, and as I said, it was among the first firearms prohibited by name, way back in the days of the beginning of the FAC.
Now, suddenly they are "Easily Converted"?!? Maybe it's that the RCMP have stumbled across some sort of Evil Genius ® with a real knack for developing quick-and-easy conversions, so they will start with a very obscure semi (the HS 10) and one that they are desperate to dispose of (the T97).
 
To sum things up, government is run by wealthy owners and the fortune 500, who control the media and law, they intend to slowly dis-arm the people so the few in power well... continue to stay in power, We have no freedom, We have owners, they "own" us. There are equal politicians fighting FOR gun rights, but they don't get heard or aired as frequently why? Due to the men who shave with lather, It's not for their benefit.

Now what am i rambling about?? Oh yeah, give me back my Type-97!
 
tiriaq said:
You have knowledge of the design process that went on in China?

The RCMP have not revealed the details of their conversion system.
No one with access to a T97 has commented on the trigger mechanism, and how semi auto only it actually is.
In the absence of any specific design details, ease of convertibility is speculation.
This is why at least one court reference is important.
If the RCMP can demonstrate that the mechanism is flawed from the standpoint of ease of conversion, their decision will stand.
Click to expand...

Pretty much any source on the web regarding this firearm lists the Type 97 models we were getting as a model made specifically for Civilian export. It would stand to reason that they would cover off that it was semi only and couldn't be converted considering it was made for this exact market.

Either the designers screwed up (Which considering the profits at stake, that's a bit hard to believe), the models that Lever got in weren't the correct ones (Much like how they ruled that the VZ-58 rifles latest shipment to Marstars was convertable, while the others weren't), or there has been some very liberal use of the term "easily converted".

I'm very interested to find out what happened. I was in the first 30 rifles ordered from Canada Ammo, until some truck repairs forced me to back out (A few years ago now).
 
Well I was in the first 75 LOL. Still waiting and it's almost June, my 2 year anniversary of paying to wait for the Type-97. I think I'll open a special bottle of wine on the day. :dancingbanana:

I was committed to waiting it out, but Summer is coming and things are looking bleak. I'm thinking of changing my order from CanadaAmmo to something else I can use in the Summer.

Does anyone know whether or not any court or decision process is up and coming? The fight against this ridiculous reclassification is going on but for the majority of potential Type-97 owners waiting for theirs and in the dark as to what is going on, can anyone speak to any glimmer of hope these things will actually get through to us?
 
I for one hope that there is some truth in the information we've seen about the fact that it is convertible... While I truly HATE to see anyone lose a firearm, I am hoping that the argument about the newer imports (the Type 97A) being done now should succeed IF there was truth to the orginal import being insufficiently disabled.

Basically my thinking is: If the owners of the currently in-country Norinco T97s lose them (but GET the compensation they are now being promised after all our hard work and fighting) they can simply buy Norinco T97As which will be more reliably disabled.

Easy as pie. It becomes the same as comparing a Valmet M78 to a Valmet M83. Nearly the same rifle, but diffenrent enough to have completely different consequences in Canadian firearms law.
 
tigerpr0n said:
so civeng, the consensus is that they WERE easily convertible?

any updates to the proceedings?
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Don't know, but from what I've seen and read it seems that it was the case. Again, I don't *know*. I was really just pointing out that there is a silver lining to the whole issue, IF the RCMP have been honest in their dealing with the Type 97.

IF <<"It was a purpose-built fully automatic firearm with the fully automatic features disabled by [Norinco] which were not reported to us," Cheliak said. "It is very easily converted back to automatic.">> IS TRUE, then it gives us hope for getting Norinco to properly remove, install denial channels, WHATEVER.

It would mean that there is hope, even if we lose the current fight.

Oh, and for the sake of full transparency: that's from a CBC report, so don't hold your breath re accuracy on firearms issues. ht tp://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/05/17/guns-confiscation.html#ixzz0pySYDrro
 
Guys, most owners of the T97's have already lost them. Mine was picked up by the RCMP three weeks ago. There are a few hearty souls out there who are going to fight this legally in court and so far they have kept their rifles. These people face a long hard road and deserve our respect and support.

The NFA has set up a legal fund for this fight and you can donate to it via the NFA forum on this site. Click on this link for more info.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470559
 
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