SAN Classic Green Barrel or Rebarrel

rdgietz

rdgietz

Regular
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Hello to all

I want to query the collective knowledge of the SAN experts on this forum. I have a SAN classic green and have been having trouble with accuracy... Before you all chime in with the typical "learn to shoot" let me say that i have been doing some load development and shooting from a lead sled. Has worked really well with my 308 savage (shooting under a 1/2 MOA at 200 yards). Ok this weekend i tried some RUAG 556 ammo (Thanks to TSE for the great service) but this rifle just tosses shots where ever it wants (off the sled). I know this is a service rifle and one can only expect 1.25 MOA out of it but i am getting 3-4 MOA at 100 yards with no consistancy from range trip to range trip.

While on the phone the pleasant fellow at TSE asked how many rounds have been down the barrel. I didnt know.. Bought it off a friend who bought it of the EE. He said well it may be your barrel. I think i am convinced of that now. but i would like to check.

How do you check if the barrel is worn? Borescope? Do i have to go to a gun smith? (yah probably unless i can find someone in winnipeg willing to take a look for me)

If is it is worn and in need of replacement where can i get a new 20.8 " swiss barrel (1/7 twist)?

and how much are they?

Is this a DIY project? Remove the old and install the new barrel? How hard could it be. Looks like it just screws off and on. Is this correct?

Thanks again to all of you with the knowledge base.. All informative answers are appreciated.

Dan
 
By your questions, installing a new barrel is a gunsmith job, no doubt.

Have you tried various types of ammo? Try some match ammo before tossing the bbl.

Also check things like the sights; Are they holding zero?
 
Dan,

I don't mean to boast but I am probably one of the most experienced users of the SAN Rifles. My orignal Classic Green (1 in 10) has about 9000 rounds through it. Last week I shot a 5 shot group at 300 meters that was about 3.5 inches (RUAG GP90 ammo). It bested a bolt action target rifle beside me and the other shooter was astonished and outraged.

The SAN rifles are very sensitive to impact changes when applying pressure to the barrels, by way of bipod or rests. For instance, when using the bipod you have to use the same amount of pressure when shooting or shots will move. I have shot Service Rifle competitions with mine for several years. We can't use bipods and can only shoot off the mag being used for a rest. I'm sighted in from the mag at 100 meters. When I use the bipod at 100 meters and don't use any heavy pressure (just let the gun gently rest on the bipod) my groups are exactly 5 inches high at 100 meters.

You might be exerting some uneven pressure on the barrel of the gun. As for wearing out, I highly doubt it. The barrels stay match accurate well into the 15000 round range. Then they loose their tight accuracy but are still very servicible and accurate until about 30000 rounds after that. The barrel steel (inside the bore) is very hard. It's gas treated. The steel brush that comes with the gun will not harm the bore. The barrel is much harder steel than the steel brush. It was a requirement of the Swiss Army for cleaning the guns without fancy cleaning compounds.

Having said that there is a chance that your bore is damaged (or muzzle / crown) in some way. I don't know what to tell you there.

Changing the barrels is simple but can be difficult. It's best to take it to the Shooting Edge or someone else who's done it before, for work. The barrels are tourqed very...very tight, and changing is not for the "un-brave" (sometimes heating the receiver helps).

This will sound crazy but RUAG GP 90 is more accurate at 300 meters than at 100 meters. The ammo seems to stablize better at longer distances. My gun shoots every thing I feed it very well. I don't get over 1.5 moa with anything including crap ammo. The same applies with all the other SAN guns I own or have owned.

New barrels are in the $600 range, with the gas block complete. I have friends that have changed to 1 in 7 barrels to shoot heavier bullets and say it helps for the heavy ones (77 & 75 graniers). I haven't found it necessary to change from the 1 in 10 yet. If you really need to shoot the heavy bullets you will need to change.

By the way I've had 2 jams in the 9000 rounds. (3 or 4 total in 6000 to 7000 rounds out of a select fire SG552 (issued to me) shooting everything including weird frangible that doesn't even look like a regular bullet).

I hope this helps,

Rich
 
Thanks Rich that helps me. Was ready to ditch the classic green as it has been giving me grief too at 100M with all ammo. Can shoot the anschutz.223 sub moa at 100M off the elbows, can't shoot a 5 inch group with any ammo in the classic green off the bipod., l. Will pay more attention to the pressure next time out. shorter barrels with 1/7 twist are sub moa with hornady match 75 gr.
 
Tried over 800 rounds of various ammo..

CanAm said:
By your questions, installing a new barrel is a gunsmith job, no doubt.

Have you tried various types of ammo? Try some match ammo before tossing the bbl.

Also check things like the sights; Are they holding zero?
Click to expand...

Hi ..

Yes i tried various kinds of factory ammo from 45 gr, 55 grain, and hand loads from 63, 65, 69, 75 and 77 grain.. with 5 different powders all a various velocities.. many of them chronied.. also.. damn i could write a book on it.. ha ha.. anyway nothing seems to work..

Well i am pretty handy.. and do all my own work on my other guns.. can strip a semi auto pistol down and install new parts etc.. just never put on a new barrel. but if it needs to be fitted i would have to take it to a smith..

Oh yes i forgot to say that i am using a B&T rail with a Bushnell 6500 5x30 scope secured with Burris tactical rings..

Dan
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the info...

Rich LPS said:
Dan,

I don't mean to boast but I am probably one of the most experienced users of the SAN Rifles. My orignal Classic Green (1 in 10) has about 9000 rounds through it. Last week I shot a 5 shot group at 300 meters that was about 3.5 inches (RUAG GP90 ammo). It bested a bolt action target rifle beside me and the other shooter was astonished and outraged.

The SAN rifles are very sensitive to impact changes when applying pressure to the barrels, by way of bipod or rests. For instance, when using the bipod you have to use the same amount of pressure when shooting or shots will move. I have shot Service Rifle competitions with mine for several years. We can't use bipods and can only shoot off the mag being used for a rest. I'm sighted in from the mag at 100 meters. When I use the bipod at 100 meters and don't use any heavy pressure (just let the gun gently rest on the bipod) my groups are exactly 5 inches high at 100 meters.

You might be exerting some uneven pressure on the barrel of the gun. As for wearing out, I highly doubt it. The barrels stay match accurate well into the 15000 round range. Then they loose their tight accuracy but are still very servicible and accurate until about 30000 rounds after that. The barrel steel (inside the bore) is very hard. It's gas treated. The steel brush that comes with the gun will not harm the bore. The barrel is much harder steel than the steel brush. It was a requirement of the Swiss Army for cleaning the guns without fancy cleaning compounds.

Having said that there is a chance that your bore is damaged (or muzzle / crown) in some way. I don't know what to tell you there.

Changing the barrels is simple but can be difficult. It's best to take it to the Shooting Edge or someone else who's done it before, for work. The barrels are tourqed very...very tight, and changing is not for the "un-brave" (sometimes heating the receiver helps).

This will sound crazy but RUAG GP 90 is more accurate at 300 meters than at 100 meters. The ammo seems to stablize better at longer distances. My gun shoots every thing I feed it very well. I don't get over 1.5 moa with anything including crap ammo. The same applies with all the other SAN guns I own or have owned.

New barrels are in the $600 range, with the gas block complete. I have friends that have changed to 1 in 7 barrels to shoot heavier bullets and say it helps for the heavy ones (77 & 75 graniers). I haven't found it necessary to change from the 1 in 10 yet. If you really need to shoot the heavy bullets you will need to change.

By the way I've had 2 jams in the 9000 rounds. (3 or 4 total in 6000 to 7000 rounds out of a select fire SG552 (issued to me) shooting everything including weird frangible that doesn't even look like a regular bullet).

I hope this helps,

Rich
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Rich...

Well maybe that is my problem... Never had a jam ever in the 800 rounds i have shot with it.. and i am using a lead sled which cradles the gun just under the barrel about 1/2 way back from the gas port.. i will try your trick using the mags as a rest and see if that helps.. As i mentioned in another post.. i have tried may different loads from 45s to 77 grains.. commercial to factory.. 5 or 6 different powders and velocities... and even the RUAG 556 nato rounds (63 gr). all give me the same result..

When i do look down the bore i do see bright rifling with no irregularities.. Its a 1 in 7 twist... When i clean it i do see what looks like brass flecks on the wet patches i put thru it. Not sure what this is from.. perhaps small pieces of the casings. Should i be concerned about this? not sure..

As mentioned in another reply i was shooting at some clay pigeons on the weekend and could not hit them consistantly at 200 yds.. part of that is likely my fault.. i am sure of that..

I would probably not want to change the barrel myself.. While i am pretty handy with guns... i do screw things up on occassion.. Would not want to wreck a new barrel or even the reciever ... for that matter..

I do have some of that RUAG 63 gr military ammo left .. maybe i will try some out next time i am at the range.. using the mags as a rest.. would have never thought of that..

Thanks again

Dan
 
Sorry guys,

I've loaded pistol for years (16 years in IPSC and Three Gun) and have a complete set-up for rifle but have not had to load for it yet. I secured some vast stocks of .223, 5.56 and GP90 a few years ago. In a couple of years I will cry and have to begin loading rifle ammo. (Right now I'm a spoiled brat with factory rifle ammo.)

Beltfed and Head Damage have loaded extensively for the Swiss Arms and both done barrel changes to 1 in 7. In Switzerland they stick with the 1 in 10 as they believe it has better accuracy but they only usually shoot up to 63 grn. RUAG.

Most of our accuracy requirements in Service rifle are at the 300 and 500 meter points. It's my belief that if the wind isn't too bad the GP 90 will shoot as good as any hand loads at those distances. I've won a few matches to prove it and shot perfect 50's in the deliberate stage at 500 meters.

PM Beltfed and Head Damage for loading data.

Rich
 
I would honestly give that bore a real good scrub before I did anything else. Try a bit of JB bore paste.

Greg shoots the 60 gr. V/Amaxs and (I think) H335 or similar powder with Fed. 205m primers. His is still the 1:10 twist.
My go to load for 77 gr. SMK is 24 grains of varget with 205m primers with an oal of 2.260".
 
Thanks!!

beltfed said:
I would honestly give that bore a real good scrub before I did anything else. Try a bit of JB bore paste.

Greg shoots the 60 gr. V/Amaxs and (I think) H335 or similar powder with Fed. 205m primers. His is still the 1:10 twist.
My go to load for 77 gr. SMK is 24 grains of varget with 205m primers with an oal of 2.260".
Click to expand...

Thanks Beltfed.. I will do that.. and give those SMKs another try .. Thanks again to all who answered my call for info..

Dan
 
Another commonly found problen is the inside of the gas valve being extremely fouled. Have a look inside it, and make sure the piston is able to seat all the way forward. There is a tool in the cleaning kit to ream out any carbon accumulation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom