Cowboy Action - Equipment question

Busta Capp

Busta Capp

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Our club just recently became affiliated with SASS and hopefully they will be holding a match soon to watch and allow us to ask questions. In the meantime I was looking at some sites and watching some youtube videos and had a couple of questions that those more familiar with CAS could help me with.

In terms of the shotgun, they seem to be saying either a Win. 1897 pump action shotgun OR a coach gun like a Stoeger. I thought I also read something about "style" points if you use a shotgun with external hammers.

A pump action shotgun seems like it would be an advantage with it's extra capacity over the coach gun. Is this a correct assumption, does the coach gun put you at a disadvantage? What is the "typical" shotgun being used, if there is such a thing.

How many shotgun rounds might be required on a typical stage, or perhaps the most you tend to see on a shotgun stage?
 
Hi
In general terms a CAS stage would consist of 10 rifle 10 pistol out of two revolvers and 4 shotgun,maybe 6.
Obviously there can be variations depending on the course designer.
Under SASS rules pumps can only be loaded with 2 rounds so there is no advantage in the capacity over a side by side.
1887 lever actions can also be used again with a 2 round limit.
It all comes down to what you feel comfortable with, I use a norinco 1897 copy but a good man with a SxS will not be at any disadvantage.
Practice, practice, practice is the key.
Use whatever you got and enjoy it, it is a great sport to get into even here in the UK.
 
As above. Clarification on the pump, only the 1897 pump can be used, the criteria is with external hammer and that does not give any other choice. As to the external hammer SxS shotgun, it does not give extra points, can be used in all sas classifications, but is only one allowed for Classic Cowboy style of shooting, and no auto ejector on the side by side's, if you want be fast an external hammer SxS can slow you down when you shoot more than two rounds, pulling the hammers back, i.e. my SxS is made in Russia for a Russian Cossack to pull back, had to get a gunsmith to lighten but still needs some effort.

You will see with the pump a lot of the top shooters actually load one round at a time straight into the chamber, it seems quicker, (thats not me)

(Note :Thanks Cold Lake my wording was not too clear.)
 
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Forty4Forty said:
As above. Clarification on the pump, only the 1897 pump can be used, the criteria is with external hammer and that does not give any other choice. As to the external hammer SxS shotgun, it does not give extra points, but is only allowed for Classic Cowboy style of shooting and no auto ejector on the side by side's, if you want be fast an external hammer SxS can slow you down when you shoot more than two rounds, pulling the hammers back, i.e. my SxS is made in Russia for a Russian Cossack to pull back, had to get a gunsmith to lighten but still needs some effort.

You will see with the pump a lot of the top shooters actually load one round at a time straight into the chamber, it seems quicker, (thats not me)
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Just to clarify, the hammered SXS is legal for all classes, but is mandatory for Classic Cowboy.
Have a look at www.sassnet.com for the breakdown of the various classes and requirements for each.
 
Forcedair said:
If shopping for a rifle, the magazine should hold 10 shots, right? Do all CAS rifle matches require 10 shots?
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As mentioned by cagunman, some stages may call for less or even more rifle rounds. Some may require a reload from the belt. :runaway:
A rifle capable of handling 10 rounds in the magazine is likely the better choice for many stages.:)
It's all in the hands of the author of the stage and depends on how challenging or different they want to make it.:D
 
The Cold Lake Kid said:
A rifle capable of handling 10 rounds in the magazine is likely the better choice for many stages.:)
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Any thoughts on the Chaparral arms Win. 1873 for the rifle?

CH-1873RS-357-L.jpg
 
Hi
I use a Chapparel 73 myself, its a .45lc 24" octaganal barrel version that hasnt let me down at all even managed to fire a couple of light special 44mags through it by mistake.
Maybe the wood to metal fit isnt as good as say a Uberti but mine was only slightly over half the cost for the similar uberti.
Would probably go for a 20" barrel if i was to buy another one as the longer barrel can be a bit muzzle heavy when swinging across the targets.
I certainly wouldnt hesitate in buying another chapparel.
Also got a Rossi 1892 20" round barrel .45lc thats a lot lighter and easier to manouver but mine is unreliable, sometimes the rounds dont come out of the mag tube and other times it may try and feed 2,3,4 whatevers left in the tube. Also find it easier to short stroke as the last little bit of the forward motion is the important bit and racking to fast it can be easy not to go all the way forward.
The 92 action is a lot stronger than the 73 and can handle stronger loads but these are not needed for cowboy shooting.
Other peoples experiences may vary, could also think about Marlins.
Peter
 
Busta Capp said:
Busta Capp said:
.....
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Welcome to the game!....You are about to find out why Cowboy Action Shooting remains the fastest growing sport in North America (some say the world, different topic)...

In terms of the shotgun, they seem to be saying either a Win. 1897 pump action shotgun OR a coach gun like a Stoeger. I thought I also read something about "style" points if you use a shotgun with external hammers.
Click to expand...
Nope, No such thing as style points...But if you can`t shoot worth a damn,at least you should shoot with style.;).....As already mentioned, if you shoot "Classic cowboy", then external hammers are required on the shotgun....There are many "classes" to shoot, but most people shoot a class that allows pistols with adjustable sights (modern), and a class that doesn`t...(frontier IIRC)....The coach shotgun is easier and more trouble free than the Win 1897, and most people shoot one or the other...With or, without hammers is up to you...As for being faster, remember, this about having fun first.....As to the Chapparel guns....I`ve heard mixed reviews on the quality...Some have had nothing but problems, others are happy....I`ve seen two in action, and both had jamming problems using 45 Colt factory ammo...Cost can be a factor when people start out in this game, so it`s what you are willing to spend....I have a Uberti 1860 Henry (45 Colt), Uberti 1866 Yellowboy rifle (45 Colt) and a Winchester 94 Carbine (45 Colt)...None have ever given me problems (so far in 19 years of shooting)....Check EE here, gun stores, or check around with other Cowboys, you may find guns for sale....

How many shotgun rounds might be required on a typical stage, or perhaps the most you tend to see on a shotgun stage?
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Also, as being mentioned, stages are up to you ie: your organization....But typically each stage involves - 2 pistols - 5 rounds each
- 1 Rifle - pistol caliber (but can shoot 44-40,
38-40 etc..) - 8 rounds
- 1 shotgun - 4 rounds

Now that your club is affiliated with SASS, you can read up on the rules, the different classes, minimum target sizes etc....Sounds like you`re in Collingwood, and when you get going, I won`t mind adding it to my list of shoots to attend....And don`t forget, you to pick a "Cowboy" name..One that will strick fear into your targets :D
Shoot straight, and have fun, fun, fun.....
Regards, Texas Jack
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No one has mentioned Wildbunch yet. With Wildbunch you can load your 1897 Shotgun with 4 rounds and stage it just like the rifle. If you are shooting Wildbunch you have an advantage using the 1897 over the sxs for that reason. Also, in Wildbunch you use a 1911 in 45 ACP with two magazines loaded with 5 rounds each. For the 1897 Shotgun, I got mine from Marstar and love it. Also can't beat the IGA coachguns either.

Also, your club is near the Blue Mountain in Ontario? Please post when your first SASS match is and I will attend, I am a SASS RO. You can PM me if you want and I can invite you out to some other matches before yours.
 
Busta Capp said:
Any thoughts on the Chaparral arms Win. 1873 for the rifle?
/QUOTE]

I have no experience with the Chaparral and I'm unaware of anyone I know having issues pro or con with it.
I will say that with the '73's action, which is the same as the 1860 Henry and the 1866 Winchester, is a good one for pistol calibre cartridges.
I find all my ejected brass just about at my feet when I shoot a stage.:dancingbanana:
Something my 1892 Rossi Puma never did. :(
It ejected brass like lightning.
Never the same place twice:runaway:
I found the action of my Rossi very stiff in spite of the use I had given it over the years and the "dry" cycling I gave it over the years.
I did not however have it tuned up by someone, which might have made a difference.:confused:
The action of the 1866 Uberti/Winchester clone, I presently have, worked very nicely right out of the box.
It was the full rifle with "Ladder" sights which I did not like for CAS. :nest:
I changed them out for some "Buckhorn" sights and I'm very pleased with them.:shotgun:
Now get out there and have some fun.
And if your ever in the Ottawa area, come on out to one of our matches.
www.ovmcowboys.ca R:d:
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If your rifle doesn't hold 10 rounds in the tubular magazine than it is a waste of your money if you buy it for cowboy action. 95% of all stages I shoot require 10 rds of rifle.
 
Garand said:
If your rifle doesn't hold 10 rounds in the tubular magazine than it is a waste of your money if you buy it for cowboy action. 95% of all stages I shoot require 10 rds of rifle.
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That`s interesting....Here in Ontario, most stages shoot 8 rounds with a rifle...One of the reasons is that most people like their rifles in a carbine version, 18" to 20"....As a result, the rifles only hold about 8 or 9 rounds....I can`t think of a match in the central, southern Ontario circuit that use`s a 10 round rifle stage....
 
10 rounds in a rifle is pretty standard. Sure some stages will have less, and even some clubs will cater to those with carbines, BUT don't buy a rifle that won't hold at least 10 rounds - you'll regret it in the long run!

Maybe your local club will only shoot 8 or 9 rifle rounds on a stage without reloading, but what if you decide to visit another club ...

Marlin 1894's, Win/Rossi/Puma 92's, Win 94's they will all hold 10, unless you have a 16" trapper model. The Henry's, 66's, and 73's will all hold 10+ regardless of whether it's a rifle, short rifle or a carbine.

My Marlin 94's in 357 hold 9-10 357's depending on the bullet used, and a guaranteed 10 38's regardless of bullet used, but they feed best with RNFP cowboy bullets.
 
90% of the Alberta Frontier Shootist Society (Rocky Mountain House) rifle scenarios involve 10 rounds. Some shootists that have 9 shot rifles cut the mag spring to get the 10th round in.

I have the Marlin 94CB and 94C, Rossi 92 and the Chaparral 1866 in .38/.357. The Marlins will eat both .38 and .357 RN and SWC the Rossi only likes .357 RN and SWC the Chaparral '66 will take both as long as the OAL exceeds 1.48" but doesn't like SWC. I was apprehensive about ordering the Chaparral (Marstar) however when it arrived I was pleasantly surprised. The quality was excellent, fit and finish was right on and it works great. The action was a little stiff at first however, after about 50 rounds shooting from the deck (live in a rural area) it smoothed out. Took it to its first match in Calgary a week ago Sunday and on the first stage I used SWC for the first time and they were catching on the shoulder of the bullet when entering the chamber. That's when I found out it didn't like SWC, when I switched back to RN....flawless.:)
 
Airwolf:

Most matches in Southern Ontario, HAHA, Wentworth, Burlington, etc. are all 10 rounds rifle. I've been shooting reguarly at all the local events for more than a year now, and have never been to a match when less than 10 rifle rounds were shot. Doesn't mean there won't be one next week, but I'd certainly advise anyone to buy a rifle that holds 10 rounds.

Niagara Glenn
 
flip1 said:
...Maybe your local club will only shoot 8 or 9 rifle rounds on a stage without reloading, but what if you decide to visit another club ...
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Islington, Guelph, HAHA, Orillia, for example, all stages with 8 rounds in rifle....

The Henry's, 66's, and 73's will all hold 10+ regardless of whether it's a rifle, short rifle or a carbine...
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Not quite true...Uberti`s "Trapper" `73 rifle (16" barrel) will only hold 9 rounds..
But it does depend on who is running the match.. No big deal one way, or the other....I find Cowboy Shooting more fun than IPSC or IDPA....
 
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