Newbie 10/30 AR Pistol mag question

If you just want the look of a 30 round mag but the function of a 10 rounder why not gut a 30 rounder and temporarily embed the 10 rounder? It would take some fiddling and messing about but it should be doable no?
 
Questar said:
The CFO has nothing to do with it... the decisions are made by the RCMP Tables Section. They are the group that classifies firearms and that reviewed and classified Questar's 10 round LAR-15 AR Pistol Magazines.

Note that I said Questar's magazine and not Rock River Arms. That's because the legal 10 round LAR-15 magazines were designed by Questar and are manufactured specifically for Questar. Rock River Arms does not make these magazines... all of their AR magazines are designed and manufactured as "Rifle" magazines... limited to 5 rounds when sold/used in Canada.

The RCMP determine if a magazine is "designed and manufactured" for use in a Handgun or if it is a "rifle magazine".

They have stated in writing (to us) that 30 round AR magazines are ALL classified as "Rifle Magazines" and that no 30 round AR magazine design (no matter how it was pinned or welded) would be acceptable to them as 10 round "Handgun" magazine.

Simply taking a magazine and pinning it or engraving it or changing the floorplate will NOT turn the magazine into a handgun magazine nor will it allow the magazine capacity to be increased. The magazine remains (always) the "type" of magazine that it was originally designed and manufactured to be.

Having been intimately involved in developing and getting approval for the "10 round LAR-15 AR Pistol magazines" I can tell you that very few people actually understand the legalities involved... most CFO's do not understand the law on this topic and many police officers still do not realize that there are legal 10 round AR magazines. What allows us to have these magazines is essentially a mistake in how the law was written and worded. Most would argue that the original intent of the law was to limit handguns to 10 round capacity and to limit sem-auto centre fire rifles to 5 round capacity. Instead of writing the law that way they wrote the law to say what capacity the magazine could have... regardless of what firearm the magazine was subsequently used in.

The result is a wide variety of rifles being legally allowed to use "handgun" magazines and therefore having 10 round capacity. The difficult part is determining what is and what is not legally considered a "handgun magazine".

Mark
Click to expand...

Very Good to know, Thanks Mark, you have always been very helpfull in the past when talking and posts like this make me want to spend more dollars at questar. :)

I was not aware you guys had the mags specifically made for you, huge thanks there, very much appreciated. Infact I will order a few more here today just because of that.

So I guess if the RCMP has said all 30 rounders are deemed for use with rifles we are screwed.

Due to the loop holes If I did manufacture a bolt action rifle that accepted magazines "similar" to the AR mag, and got lets say a 29 rounder manufactured specifically for that bolt action... that should fly? Hmm seems like alot of work, and I imagine there would have to be a number of them around to fit the "commonly available" thing.
 
P-J said:
TDC, if we all had this attitude, we wouldn't have these stupid laws. I did the one man clap for you :D
Click to expand...


I appreciate that. Its nice to see folks willing to stand up for what is right, instead of quietly wishing and hoping someone else will solve the problem.

Paul Morrison said:
We'd also have a lot more gun owners in Jail.
Click to expand...

You can't imprison everyone, and I'm sure joe public would be a little more concerned with the excessive waste of the courts time, the LEO's time, and the citizens tax dollars on such stupid sh*t. Lets not forget the jack booted thug like mentality that would pervert the news every night showing regular joes being rounded up like another group of "out cast" citizens from about 70 years ago(I'll give you a hint, they wore yellow stars on their shirts). All over regular joe enjoying THEIR property which was once legal but overnight is not. A standard capacity magazine is a crime.. Do tell, where's the victim of such a crime????? Without a victim there is no crime.

TDC
 
TDC said:
I run 30 round magazines, I don't know where you people find these pinned magazines?

TDC
Click to expand...

I wish I could be as tough on the internet as you.


TDC said:
...Lets not forget the jack booted thug like mentality that would pervert the news every night showing regular joes being rounded up like another group of "out cast" citizens from about 70 years ago(I'll give you a hint, they wore yellow stars on their shirts).
Click to expand...

Nice.



Do you fill those 30rd mags with ammo stolen from the good businesses in Calgary which are also sponsors of this site?
 
TDC said:
I run 30 round magazines, I don't know where you people find these pinned magazines?

TDC
Click to expand...

Illegal activities and bragging about them on CGN is not allowed. User has been banned. Guys the board rules are clear. Dont post about using prohibitive devices/illegal activities.
 
USP said:
Illegal activities and bragging about them on CGN is not allowed. User has been banned. Guys the board rules are clear. Dont post about using prohibitive devices/illegal activities.
Click to expand...

Apparently he didn't get off the x fast enough... maybe less twinkies next time.
 
TDC said:
I appreciate that. Its nice to see folks willing to stand up for what is right, instead of quietly wishing and hoping someone else will solve the problem.



You can't imprison everyone, and I'm sure joe public would be a little more concerned with the excessive waste of the courts time, the LEO's time, and the citizens tax dollars on such stupid sh*t. Lets not forget the jack booted thug like mentality that would pervert the news every night showing regular joes being rounded up like another group of "out cast" citizens from about 70 years ago(I'll give you a hint, they wore yellow stars on their shirts). All over regular joe enjoying THEIR property which was once legal but overnight is not. A standard capacity magazine is a crime.. Do tell, where's the victim of such a crime????? Without a victim there is no crime.

TDC
Click to expand...

Godwin's law invoked after only 25 posts. Not sure if it's a record but it must be close.
 
DMeNTED said:
Apparently he didn't get off the x fast enough... maybe less twinkies next time.
Click to expand...

Lets not speak ill of the banned. Guys discuss the magazines, discuss how to change the laws, just dont post stuff about breaking them or trying to get others to break them on CGN.
 
USP said:
Lets not speak ill of the banned. Guys discuss the magazines, discuss how to change the laws, just dont post stuff about breaking them or trying to get others to break them on CGN.
Click to expand...

In my defense I spoke ill of Daddy Tactibucks before he was banned. ;)
 
The way the law written is NOT a mistake.

To word it the other way will mean that anyone who possess a magazine that can hold more than 5 roundsof ANY catridge will be illegal. Think of this - you can put more than 5 rounds of .223 into a M14 magazines, even if it is not operational. Hence, the word "design" must be used.

Otherwise, as long as a magazine can hold more than 5 or 10 round of ANY catridge will be illegal. In fact, all magazine will be essentially illegal other than some weird ultra small centerfire magazines that it is so small it cannot hold anything else. That will not a fair and enforce-able law.

Questar said:
What allows us to have these magazines is essentially a mistake in how the law was written and worded. Most would argue that the original intent of the law was to limit handguns to 10 round capacity and to limit sem-auto centre fire rifles to 5 round capacity. Instead of writing the law that way they wrote the law to say what capacity the magazine could have... regardless of what firearm the magazine was subsequently used in.
Click to expand...
 
greentips said:
The way the law written is NOT a mistake.

To word it the other way will mean that anyone who possess a magazine that can hold more than 5 roundsof ANY catridge will be illegal. Think of this - you can put more than 5 rounds of .223 into a M14 magazines, even if it is not operational. Hence, the word "design" must be used.

Otherwise, as long as a magazine can hold more than 5 or 10 round of ANY catridge will be illegal. In fact, all magazine will be essentially illegal other than some weird ultra small centerfire magazines that it is so small it cannot hold anything else. That will not a fair and enforce-able law.
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself. It was never the legislators intent to allow 10 round handgun magazines to be used in semi-auto rifles which they believed they were limiting to 5 round magazine capacities. That makes it a mistake.

To be honest the "mistake" was when the RCMP ruled on the Beretta CX4 Storm magazines... it was their decision to declare the CX4 Storm "rifle" magazines prohibited devices that set the ground-rules for determining what is a handgun magazine and what can and can't have a capacity of 10 rounds. Our 10 round LAR-15 magazines flowed from that decisionl

Wording a change to the mag laws wouldn't be that difficult... but it would be devastating to gun owers. There are a variety of ways they could amend the magazine law wording and all of them are bad for shooters... not that this would bother the anti-gun people.

Ask yourself this question... if hypothetically we somehow came up with a way to offer a legal 100 round magazine for the AR-15 rifles, how long do you think it would be until the politicians passed some legislation to make such a magazine prohibited? Or do you think they would just shrug their shoulders and ignore it?

If you believe they would react by amending legislation then ask yourself the next question: Where is the line between what they will ignore and what they will be forced to act on?

That is the million dollar question... How far can we push until they change the rules?

Mark
 
USP said:
Illegal activities and bragging about them on CGN is not allowed. User has been banned. Guys the board rules are clear. Dont post about using prohibitive devices/illegal activities.
Click to expand...

No one else thought he was just joking?
And he got banned, what if he WAS just joking?

Don't want to "stir up the ####" with the admins or anything but wow.
 
Styrak said:
No one else thought he was just joking?
And he got banned, what if he WAS just joking?

Don't want to "stir up the s**t" with the admins or anything but wow.
Click to expand...

This is not the first time this user was associated with illegal activities. If in fact he was joking in his post why didnt he say so? He in fact didnt.
 
This whole notion of "prohibited devices" is ridiculous...it is ACTIONS (not the part mind you, but the activity) that ought to be prohibited, not bits of metal, wood, and plastic.
 
30 round mags and go faster switch are fun (work related shooting :D )... but really spoil the experience of shooting my own AR with those silly 5/20 and 5/30 mags.

But yes had they not ruled that the CX4 had a 'rifle mag' even though the CX4 was designed to use pistol mags there would not have been a precedence set to allow for the AR pistol mags

you cant modify a mag designed for a manual rifle to work in a semi if it holds more then 5 rds unless you pin it as well, like cutting the little square hole in the AIA mags so the fit properly in a M14, or using a 40 cal pistol mag in a 9mm is ok unless you have to adjust the feed lips to make it work. Un-modified mags that just happen to work are fine, but as soon as you modify them your screwed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom