Glocks not so great anymore?????

Glocks have a certain 'chiseled' look to them which can only be had by being beaten with every single ugly stick ever made.

That said, I love the way they point. Much to be said about the grip angle which is very similar to a Luger, which to this day is praised and sought after for it's ability to naturally point center on the target you aim at.

I love my Tanfoglio. It shoots better than I can, looks damn ###y while doing it, and it absolutely tighter in or out of lockup than a glock.

However, I will be buying one in the near future, mostly because of their reputation. Take 200 glocks, field strip them to their components and throw them into a berrel and mix well.

Then taking random pieces out of the barrel, and assemble 200 guns from all those parts.

98% of the glocks WILL FIRE after doing that. Not many other manufacturer's can pass that test.


I'll take a G31c when it comes time to purchase.
 
Police departments buy glocks because they can get them for about $300 a gun. It's rare for a pistol to see more then 5000 rounds. Plus they're light so officers won't be inclined to leave the gun behind (it's happened) and your average officer can probably count the number of times they go for their gun in their entire career on one hand.

That said however, there's a lot more positive stories about glocks I hear then there are criticisms, and most of those are directed towards minor things like ergos. I'm only aware of some issues and those should have been fixed by now. Just don't drink the kool-aid and think that glocks will fire no matter what. There's plenty of examples of Glocks having issues. Just don't mess with the internals unless necessary, dab some grease on the rails, and 99.99% of the time it will perform.

Got Juice? said:
Then taking random pieces out of the barrel, and assemble 200 guns from all those parts.

98% of the glocks WILL FIRE after doing that. Not many other manufacturer's can pass that test.


I'll take a G31c when it comes time to purchase.
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All modern production pistols are assembled like that actually. Do that with 200 Sigs or Beretta or CZs or just about any other production gun, you'll more then likely get almost 200 functioning weapons. Mostly because their designed that way; armorers for larger organizations don't have the time to hand tune and try different parts to see if they'll make a gun work or not. It needs to be, "This part broke, part replaced and test fired, good to go."
 
RACKMAN said:
Well, I was just getting ready to make my next pistol purchase and I THOUGHT I had made a good choice on a Glock model 22....until I started researching threads on this site. It seems there are alot of negative comments these days about Glocks...Until now, I thought they were very reliable, stupid simple etc, which is why quite a few police departments use them. So what gives? Did Glock quality start going downhill recently or have they always been over-rated, or are negative comments on this site just exaggerated??? The reason I really wanted a Glock is because they are so light and suppose to be ultra reliable and if we were ever able to get CC it wouldn't feel like a brick on my hip( I don't care if you think we will never get CC, I like to think in terms of what if and if the SHTF pistol to pack). The Glock 22 is 22oz....that's great, the CZ SP01 Shadow(which I also will be buying) is almost double that. Now I know the CZ is probably a much more quality pistol than the Glock, but I definitely wouldn't like that weight on my hip. Opinions on this dilemma of mine are welcome...also opinions about other light weight autos that could be considered over the Glock would be helpful. Thanks.

RACKMAN
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light,hyper reliable,never jam otherwise than the dude flinching at the end of the grip....a glock is a glock...that said, the .40 round lack support at his base,nothing new there, and unsupported chambers combined with hot reloads and poor maintenance has been proven bad in many KB's for them....if you want to play with .40 hot reloads, you should get an optional threaded barrel with more support near the feeding ramp,that's it.KKM's, IGB's,bar-sto,they all have a good solutions for this aspect, otherwise you're good to go with the glock original barrels.....i play with both CZ's and GLOCKS, very different animals, but still, a glock is a glock, a gun in his own class, nothing come close and imitations aren't even close in quality....comparing M&P's or springfields,or steyr's or whatever plastoc....they dont even come close in fit and assembly, nor accuracy....
 
RACKMAN said:
The Glock 22 is 22oz....that's great, the CZ SP01 Shadow(which I also will be buying) is almost double that. Now I know the CZ is probably a much more quality pistol than the Glock, but I definitely wouldn't like that weight on my hip. Opinions on this dilemma of mine are welcome...also opinions about other light weight autos that could be considered over the Glock would be helpful. Thanks.

RACKMAN
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I was at a shop a little while ago and I was asking why, if glocks are such great durable guns why are they cheaper than most other pistols? The guy behind the counter said one of the reasons was the process they use to manufacture glocks. He said the factories have really nice expensive machines that can pump out a lot of glocks a day. So because they take less time to make, those savings are passed on to us.

He told me that all glocks are all made to very specific dimensions. So you know every glock part is exactly (EXACTLY) the same as the last. To prove this to me he took a couple of different glocks he had in the display cases and swapped out the slides and grips and barrels and what have you. They all swapped and functioned perfectly. He put them together without any problems and it was all very smooth.

Then he compared it to the CZ shadow. He took two CZ shadows (same make, model, everything) and attempted to swap the slides with one another. He eventually got the the slides onto the other grips but it took some work, and they didn't cycle very smoothly.

I was pretty blown away. He said that the CZ is a great pistol, but they just aren't made with the precision that a glock is.

Did I mention that the glocks weren't even the same models? G17 and G22?
 
Got Juice? said:
However, I will be buying one in the near future, mostly because of their reputation. Take 200 glocks, field strip them to their components and throw them into a berrel and mix well.

Then taking random pieces out of the barrel, and assemble 200 guns from all those parts.

98% of the glocks WILL FIRE after doing that. Not many other manufacturer's can pass that test.


I'll take a G31c when it comes time to purchase.
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Only 98%? Really. Not very good if that is all they would do, though I suspect all would fire just fine. Take a look at the tests results for the CZ SP-01. I don't know of any quality production pistols today that aren't capable of 100% reliability. That said all have lemons just goes with mass production. Glocks just like most other pistol manufacurers have service/parts departments for a reason. Mechanical devices do break and do fail, even Glocks.

Take Care

Bob
 
Got Juice? said:
However, I will be buying one in the near future, mostly because of their reputation. Take 200 glocks, field strip them to their components and throw them into a berrel and mix well.

Then taking random pieces out of the barrel, and assemble 200 guns from all those parts.

98% of the glocks WILL FIRE after doing that. Not many other manufacturer's can pass that test.


I'll take a G31c when it comes time to purchase.
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Basically what I said! Except you said it first, and better!
 
Glockster Dude said:
He told me that all glocks are all made to very specific dimensions. So you know every glock part is exactly (EXACTLY) the same as the last. To prove this to me he took a couple of different glocks he had in the display cases and swapped out the slides and grips and barrels and what have you. They all swapped and functioned perfectly. He put them together without any problems and it was all very smooth.
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Did I mention that the glocks weren't even the same models? G17 and G22?
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and then, the most interesting part is glocks have less parts than any other guns....34 to 4? something depending of the model ....
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I have a Glock 17, and love it. To me, it depends on what you look for in a gun. It's like any product class, most guns (cars, lighters, watches, pens) do the same base function, but some carry more cachet or status. Some are more or less reliable, more or less costly; due to style, effort to make, etc.

I think of Glock as the BIC pen/lighter, the Toyota Corolla (or Civic as said earlier), or the Timex watch of the gun world - lots of people have and love them for their reasonable cost, and reliability. Consumers rewarded them with market share, but there are people that want tuned, more stylish products, or just something different from everyone else and are willing to pay for it. To each their own, and I can see the appeal.

I'm a Corolla/BIC/Timex kind of guy, so I like Glocks and guns it inspired like the XD and M&P.
 
Canuck44 said:
Only 98%? Really. Not very good if that is all they would do, though I suspect all would fire just fine. Take a look at the tests results for the CZ SP-01. I don't know of any quality production pistols today that aren't capable of 100% reliability. That said all have lemons just goes with mass production. Glocks just like most other pistol manufacurers have service/parts departments for a reason. Mechanical devices do break and do fail, even Glocks.

Take Care

Bob
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I would like to see ANY other manufacturer do this same test and even get 90%.

Glockster Dude said:
Basically what I said! Except you said it first, and better!
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Thanks. And for the Record, I am most definately NOT a GLOCK fan. But there is an excellence in their design that has yet to be matched. The 200 gun takedown test is reason enough to buy one based on the soundness of their original concept.


Austria insisted that every gun submitted for consideration had to meet or exceed SEVENTEEN qualifications:

Must be semi-automatic
Must fire the 9mm parabellum round
Muzzel energy must meet a designated standard
Magazine must be loaded without use of tools
Magazine must hold at least eight rounds
Must be able to be used with only one hand
Must continue to function after being dropped onto a steel plate from a height of two meters
Must be easy to dismantle without tools
Maintainance and cleaning must be possible without tools
Gages and other measuring devices must not be necessary for long-term maintainance
Total number of parts must be 58 or less
Manufacturer must supply complete blueprints along with the test pistol
All component parts must be interchangeable with other pistols of the same design without adjustments
No more than 20 mal-functions will be permitted in the first 10,000 rounds fired
After 15,000 rounds all parts must be secure and intact, even under stress of a "proof round" at 15,001
Case ejection must not endanger the shooter
If no submitted pistol achieves more than a score of 70%, then no pistol at all will be accepted
 
9 times out of 10 if you put a Glock in the hands of a new shooter they will shoot better with it than with any other handgun. The reason being is just that trigger. It is almost like it is meant to be pulled, human nature to beginning shooters. Once you get used to the 'squeeze' the glock seems to become less accurate, and annoying (for accuracy) ;) Great combat pistol though (no, not speaking from experience, I try to keep gun fighting to a minimum :p...I just think it sports the traits of a sidearm that would prove useful in a high stress situation)

For a SHTF pistol, I would definitely count on a glock.
 
Got Juice? said:
I would like to see ANY other manufacturer do this same test and even get 90%.
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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_167_28/ai_110457315/

"A few years ago, the Czech National Police wanted a new handgun to meet their needs. They wanted a design offering a high-level of comfort and ergonomics, based on the CZ 75 operating system. Called a "Generation 3" pistol, the P-01 is the final result of that journey down the road of new ideas. It fulfills the need for a lightweight, compact pistol having the same durability and accuracy of a full-sized, full-weight pistol. The National Police had a tough list of requirements--so tough, many companies simply bowed-out of the bid process, but CZ staked a claim to the prize--and won it.

Tough Tests

The P-01 was accepted after almost three years of testing and development. What CZ did to win the bid is something that few (how about zero?) designs have ever had to go through before greeting the buying public. For a military gun, sure, but in this case, the general public gets the same gun, same design and same specs as the police and military.

For instance, according to the information supplied by CZ, the gun had to withstand 4,000 dry-firings, 3,000 de-cockings, operator-level disassembly and re-assembly 1,350 times, complete disassembly (all the way down to pins and springs) 150 times, 100-percent parts interchangeability, a 1.5 meter drop test (54 times) on concrete, three meter drop test, firing after being frozen at -36 F for 24 hours, firing after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations--and after having been stripped of all oil. The service life must exceed 15,000 rounds of P 9mm ammo and indeed, testing revealed the P-01 has exceeded 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

The reliability requirement protocol was particularly astounding. Set at 98.8 percent (.2 percent) failure rate, this was tough-enough for any gun. This equals 20 stoppages per 10,000 rounds, or 500 "mean rounds between failures" (MRBF). During testing, the average number of stoppages was only seven per 15,000 rounds, or .05 percent failure rate. This translates to a MRBF rate of 2,142 rounds. That happens to be about five times the minimum acceptable rate for the U.S. Army, which is set at 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 gr. ball ammo. The bottom line here is the fact this appears to be a rugged, highly reliable design, despite its small size and alloy frame. With this kind of testing history--and our own shooting experiences with the P-01--we think it should be a breeze for it to hold-up to anything a civilian shooter could dish at it."

The full disassembly required the parts to be mixed and guns re-assembled from the pile of parts from all the guns. This type of test is kind of a no brainer given they ways modern guns are now assembled.

You asked.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Starscream said:
Police departments buy glocks because they can get them for about $300 a gun. It's rare for a pistol to see more then 5000 rounds. Plus they're light so officers won't be inclined to leave the gun behind (it's happened) and your average officer can probably count the number of times they go for their gun in their entire career on one hand.
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o boy........please stick with what you know.....lol

no insult intended...:runaway:
 
Well, you said you stand corrected ( I assume on the fact that Glock is the only one that has 98% reliability interchanging pars), CZ has 100%.

Got Juice? said:
Sorry, I am not understanding what you are saying/where you are going with this question. Care to elaborate a little for me?
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