Level II or Level III

Do you care about Level II versus Level III

  • Yes the level matters

    Votes: 31 41.9%

  • No the level does not matter

    Votes: 43 58.1%
  • Total voters
    74
Yes & No

stormbringer said:
Does it really matter to the shooters?
Does it matter to the ROs?
Say you could hypothetically shoot a match that is a level III with 190 rounds in 10 stages for $100
or
A level II match with 190 rounds in 10 stages for $100
Would you really care?
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Yes for when it needs to count for qualifying and for overall standings....and good for prizes and awards, if any, and there should be, especially to justify the higher ticket price... which I believe should be between $75 - $100.
I also would like all level 3's to be over 200 rnds.
and
No for most of the time, as long as the level 2's round count is up there to make more fun in one day, though, I'd still like to see chrony at these level 2's that are of higher round count, at least... to keep everyone honest...and prices to be kept between $25 to $50 max... again, depending on rnd. count.
and hopefully more classifier stages...

I also believe the round count should have some relevance with the price.. higher round count, higher price (more props, etc...and more $ for more fun)

If nationals are over 300 rnd. count and prizes, than I believe higher price of $125 - $150 max....

We definately need more level 2's with 140 +/- rnd. count thru the warmer months...

my 2.5 cents...
 
I agree with Euxx somewhat. I have hosted matches, IPSC and other, while their is a bit extra work involved in putting on a Level III (and no I haven't held one of those), if the match is of good enough quality, then absolutely go for the III designation. If it's not, stay at a II. Being for a charity, the cost isn't so bad, but for me I'd still prefer a higher round count, and not just bigger stages, but more. For you guys in Ontario you have a lot more choice for matches, and more people to draw on, so it will probably be well attended regardless.
For those who shoot for fun, they probably would prefer a III as much as I would, at least some of them, because it is supposed to mean a better match. But that is not always the case of course.
 
What ?

euxx said:
For those who don't want to be competitive, what is the point then to go to the matches? May as well just go to the range on their own and shoot even more. No waiting and no registration fees, isn't that even better?
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o.k. well that's just doesn't make sense ?? it's a fun sport and everyone is welcomed to come out and enjoy making gun go bang...it's fun... if they don't care about being competative, that's just fine and well, then you'll finish higher in standings and can be proud of yourself...

This is a great place to make hobby friends as well and have a good time... if someone only goes to the match, shoots and then goes home pissed off at their performance and can't sleep cause they had a few extra C's and few D's and a Mike....and it's all about the being competative and forgetting how much fun it is..... well, I feel sad for them.... but it is their peragative.. I guess....
I'm not nocking guys who want to be competative, as it's in our nature, and I am too..to an extent...and want to improve.....
I just hope we're all having FUN !
 
Lol...for all the level III's I've won I think I only got a couple of Presidents medals...so a Level II isn't much different :D
 
I think that the level does matter. I agree that the quality of a match is important, maybe even more important then a higher round count.

The importance however may only be psychological. For instance ask yourself this question, if there is a Level II and a Level III with about the same round count on the same weekend but you can only shoot one of them, which one do you go to? For me it would be the level III. For one thing you are more likely to draw the top shooters to the match which the other shooters like so they can see how they stack up against them. It is good to have more then 1 or 2 GM's or M's at a match to give the results more "credibility". By that I mean while it is possible for 1 GM or M to have a bad match, it is unlikely that 3 or 4 of them would at the same match.

Round count I think is easier to judge for people right off because a lot of the time it is advertised before the match and it is a standard value. Quality is subjective. What one shooter thinks is a good challenging match the next shooter thinks it was too hard or maybe boring. One thinks there were too many long shoots, the next guy thinks the targets should have been farther away. How many time have you heard people saying that a match was either a open gun or a standard gun match? The thing you need to remember is you will never make everyone happy, so quit trying.

There are clubs here in Ontario that put on matches that some shooters will only go to shoot at if there is nothing else going on with in 100KM because they don't like the way the matches are run or the typical way the club sets up stages regardless if it is a level II or III. I think a clubs reputation has a lot to do with the notion of whether it will be a good match or not.

None of this however answers Storm's question of whether he should run a Level II or III. I know that a lot of shooters will have a preconceived notion of what is a fair price for a level II and a Level III. They don't care whether it is a charity match or not, or whether it is 200 rounds or not. They just feel that $100 for a level II is just too much. Mind you some of these guys would say that would be too much for a level III too.

Storm, the question is, are you and your crew willing and able to do the extra work involved in putting on a level III or not. Whether it is a Level II or III your match will be fully booked for sure. People have always said good things about your matches and the club. You guys have a good reputation, that really helps. The people that will complain about the level or the price seldom help run or put on matches so to hell with them. I have never put on a Level III but my fair share of Level II's, they were more then enough work for me.
 
I get so sick of people saying a match was too hard. You are only compared to others of the same skill level in the end. All matches should be "hard". Once you head outside Canada you'll be amazed at just how difficult matches are.
 
stormbringer said:
I am just trying to justify for my self the extra work (and requisitie bs) that a Level III takes over a LII
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Kinda answered your own question, no?

Personally, I've found the more I take part in helping with a IPSC match copy the less I like the sport and the more I enjoy club matches. I could go into a lengthy list of agravating reasons but I'm thinking involved volunteers (well most anyway) would already know them very well.
IMO the steps IPSC has taken to level the playing field (so to speak) and to appease the whiners has absolutely stifled the creativity (to a degree) of the guy who actually puts an event together...
Just my 2 cents, YMMV
 
Always quality over quantity for me.
I agree with Eugene, we need more Level III matches.Canada is one of the larger regions in the world by numbers of members but not by the matches we are hosting and quality of the shooters we are having.
We are blessed with having access to cheaper pistols, bullets, presses and we have indoor and outdoor ranges. Still we as a Canadians except few individuals not do so well. Why?
In my opinion,
Lack of training,
Not enough quality matches with best shooters
...and our Canadian attitude, every one has to be included and happy, so no physically difficult stages. This attitude of being happy over learn how to win and learn what to do to win takes over every where.
With kids, with adults and so on.
I understand that sport is for masses and more participation better for everyone, however, if we look at the philosophy of the sport, always main sport or Olympic motto was:
faster,
farther,
higher

Storm, thanks for your involvement in sport of IPSC and any shooting activity. Your matches are always well put together and fun to be part of.
 
yes it does. I plan around things in my life to attend level 3 sanctioned matches. IN the maritimes, I find it is well worth it to use the whole weekend because our level 3's are usually 2 days,+ 300rds/16 stages. I have hosted a few big level 2 matches (170+rds=8 or 9 stages), and although we gave out limited amounts of prizes, the feedback I got was great. So good that I am definitely making the match an annual event, and I am toying with the idea of trying to add a few stages, making it around 240rds,...and possibly seek level 3 approval. It was a bit of work, but the help I got from my club was overwhelming! I was told 3 more stages, or 50 more rounds and it would have been a one day level3.
I guess what it comes down to Storm, is the assistance you will get setting up the stages, how much time do you have, and what numbers are you working with.....and of course the level 3 approval. How much time is the turn around forthe level 3 stages approval?
 
Guys, what (I think) Storm is talking about is what kind of involvement can we, lower rank and file can contribute.
I thin (again) that if some of the local clubs who don't have fascility and resources to host even level II match approach Storm with a stage or dedicate some man hours to build, run and clean we can have a level III with more then 10 stages and more then enough round count.
 
PeterPan said:
Guys, what (I think) Storm is talking about is what kind of involvement can we, lower rank and file can contribute.
I thin (again) that if some of the local clubs who don't have fascility and resources to host even level II match approach Storm with a stage or dedicate some man hours to build, run and clean we can have a level III with more then 10 stages and more then enough round count.
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The only real problem I have with LIII matches is the beurocracy..........

I hate rules for the sake of rules to have rules that have zero basis in logic but act as an impediment to progress.

So I found myself wondering................Why on earth am I even doing this? Of what benefit is there.

Hence the Poll............

It appears that the results are almost evenly split. As such I will keep moving on the LIII for this year as planned
 
stormbringer said:
The only real problem I have with LIII matches is the beurocracy..........

I hate rules for the sake of rules to have rules that have zero basis in logic but act as an impediment to progress.

So I found myself wondering................Why on earth am I even doing this? Of what benefit is there.

Hence the Poll............

It appears that the results are almost evenly split. As such I will keep moving on the LIII for this year as planned
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Thanks John. This is a great and most exiting news.
BTW, can you enlighten us on the bureaucracy and the rules you've referred to? Kinda long shot, but perhaps our regional coordinator need to be aware of those and maybe he could help.
 
SuperVisoR said:
Happy to hear its moving along as L3.
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Most certainly...........

We are having the next organizational meeting on Monday to finalize some more details and get moving in earnest. The 3 gun match and the EESA Open House took much of my time this past spring.

Now the slate is clear (well excepting the Pan Am SG and Summer Slam Trips)
 
For what it is worth, it is possible to put on a Level II match that is indistinguishable, as far as match quality is concerned, from a Level III. The only thing that need be lacking is the blessing of the international IPSC match sanctioning committee. You can have the same round and stage counts, the same quality of props, the same adherence to full-on free-style without the paperwork. The question is whether people will pay for that quality without the official stamp of approval.
 
stormbringer said:
The only real problem I have with LIII matches is the beurocracy..........

I hate rules for the sake of rules to have rules that have zero basis in logic but act as an impediment to progress.

So I found myself wondering................Why on earth am I even doing this? Of what benefit is there.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of IPSC! Who said rules need to make sense!!!!!!!!!
 
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