New toy on the way - Long Branch 1941 No.4 Mk.1

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spinecracker

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I have a 1941 Long Branch No.4 Mk.1 on the way, but I thought I'd share a few photos that I have already got from the seller:

http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/

The company selling the rifle does not exactly have a stellar reputation (TG International), so I am waiting with a mix of trepidation, fear and expectation. The lower band on the rifle has been drilled to accept an Indian issue grenade launcher sight, but I do not know as yet if the stock has been modified in the same area (the Indians cut small recesses in the forestock on either side of the lower band to fit the launcher sight), but the forestock does not have the Ishey screw, so there is a chance that the forestock was replaced and/or the lower band was replaced art some point. Any ideas as to what the "50" stamp below the safety catch may mean? Indian refurb mark for 1950, maybe?
 
Well, the rifle turned up, and I am pleasantly surprised. The receiver and barrel have not been monkeyed with, and the bolt is original. The forend, buttstock and hand guards are obviously replacements, and some of the metal parts, like the rear sight and bolt head, have been replaced at some point. I have added some photos at:

http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/spinecracker/New%20Long%20Branch%201941/

There is the "rust" mark on top of the receiver, but I have inspected the bore and chamber and could see nothing obvious. Any ideas regarding the star stamp next to the rust stamp?
 
It's pretty hard to say from photos, but that stamp beside the star reminds me of some Israeli markings I have seen. If I recall correctly, Israel used Lee Enfields at one point - I wonder if this one was there? By the way, congratulations on the '41. It maybe isn't perfect, but it is certainly better than the one you didn't have before! Now to start looking for the correct wood, butt plate, cocking piece, front barrel band, .......:dancingbanana:
 
Finding a perfect 1941 Long Branch outside of a museum or in some lucky male offspring of a female dog's collection just isn't going to happen, so I am happy with what I did find. It is better than the one I DID HAVE before lol. The correct forend is rocking horse poo (fat chance of ever finding it separate from a rifle, and people who do have the correct forend are holding out to get the rifle and do not want to sell the forend). I would be happy with the correct bands, buttplate, front sight protector, rear sight and cocking piece, but some of those parts do not appear that often, either lol.
 
Does your other '41 have a '41 dated barrel or '42? How many grooves in the rifling? Have you shot either one yet? You are lucky to have 2, regardless of condition. The bits and pieces you seek are very difficult to find, but keep looking. You never know what's out there.
 
The barrel is dated 1942 (I know about how rare the 1941 dated barrels are lol), and has 2 grooves. I should be going to the range tomorrow. the first one I sold to pay for other projects (including an Enfield Enforcer - I seem to have luck finding uncommon Enfields lol).
 
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spinecracker said:
The barrel is dated 1942 (I know about how rare the 1941 dated barrels are lol), and has 2 grooves. I should be going to the range tomorrow. the first one I sold to pay for other projects (including an Enfield Enforcer - I seem to have luck findings uncommon Enfields lol).
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I've had 3 41 LB's, none of them were perfect.

Perfect ones exist, but nobody parts with them! :mad:
 
cantom said:
I've had 3 41 LB's, none of them were perfect.

Perfect ones exist, but nobody parts with them! :mad:
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So true. I can't see anyone parting with a correct forend any time soon, and you don't exactly see 1941 Long Branch popping up in any condition lol. A little bit of work and some LB-stamped parts, and I think that is how far I would go with this rifle, unless the right forend came along, then it would get the full treatment (but I would obviously not do any refinishing of the metalwork - the patina is there for a reason and is part of the history).
 
Range report - weather sunny, slight 5-10mph side wind left to right on occasions, temperature 90 degrees F in the shade, shooting from seated position, rifle resting on a sandbag. The micrometer sight was used, set at 200 yards, and the ammunition used was 1969 Kynoch .303 Mk.7Z. I managed to get a 6-round 1 1/2" grouping 3 inches high and 3 inches to the right, so all I have to do is adjust for windage (3 inches high at 100 yards with the sight set at 200 yards with military ammunition is correct, according to my resources). Next time I will be trying the rifle out at 200 yards, after correcting for windage.

As for replacing the forend, I would not be adverse to spending some money to get the right early walnut forend - if I could, then perhaps restoring the rifle to 1941 specification might be a good idea.
 
I managed to strip the gun down quite far, degreased and cleaned (what I, and some other people took for suncorite was just really thick, dried-on grease - it is coming off, slowly but surely), and now I can see some of the details better. My camera is not working at the moment, so bear with me -

Receiver - serial number 0L75XX correctly stamped on the buttsocket, with something that looks like "K1" with M" underneath stamped in small letters directly under the safety catch, and "50" stamped just to the right in numbers about the same size as the serial number. Left side of receiver wall stamped with "No 4 Mk 1", "LONG BRANCH" and "1941" . Magazine catch is stamped "LB", but I cannot find any markings on the sear (still has some gunk on it though - a job for another day). The breech bolt head catch plate (what a mouthful) is stamped "LB", so I think the entire assembly (sear, magazine catch, sear spring) is original. The safety catch looks to be stamped with a "B" and a board arrow. The rear sight is a Fazakerley Mk.1 micrometer sight. There is a "rust" star stamp on top of the receiver, just in front of a 5-pointed star stamp (the stamp is incomplete, so I cannot work out the lettering inside the stamp).

Barrel - stamped with serial number matching the receiver, dated '42 with the correct inspection stamps, etc. Importers mark at end of muzzle (fortunately not too noticeable). I cannot find any damage that would relate to the "rust" stamp mentioned above - must look harder lol.

Bolt - handle correctly serialed to the receiver and barrel (not a force-match), has "LB" stamp and "crossed flags" stamp in correct places. Cocking piece is replacement, stamped "N67 Mk.II". Bolt head is stamped with the Savage "S" and there are no other markings (I know that Savage helped Long Branch out several times with parts, and vice versa, including 1941, so the bolt head may be original, but we will never know).

wood - butt stamped with Savage "S", has arsenal heel repair. Cannot find any marking on forend, but it is an obvious replacement. The forend cap is stamped with "F" over "55" and maybe "O" over "21". The forend wood has some "tiger stripping" and has a red tint, so stained beech? Front handguard cap stamped with "S.M.", so obviously a replacement.

Magazine - stamped with broad arrow and "KO" on back of rib on back of magazine. There are some other marks, but they are mostly obliterated. The magazine has been serialed for 3 rifles, my rifle being the last. Magazine follower stamped with "F49"

Front sight protector, bands - unstamped - nada.

Trigger, trigger guard - trigger with Savage "S" stamp and some other stamps that look like inspection stamps, trigger guard has a big partial "B" (?) stamped next to, and under, the loop, and a "3" on the other side.

That is enough for one night. Opinions - who thinks that this can/should be put back to 1941 configuration?
 
spinecracker said:
I managed to strip the gun down quite far, degreased and cleaned (what I, and some other people took for suncorite was just really thick, dried-on grease - it is coming off, slowly but surely), and now I can see some of the details better. My camera is not working at the moment, so bear with me -

Receiver - serial number 0L75XX correctly stamped on the buttsocket, with something that looks like "K1" with M" underneath stamped in small letters directly under the safety catch, and "50" stamped just to the right in numbers about the same size as the serial number. Left side of receiver wall stamped with "No 4 Mk 1", "LONG BRANCH" and "1941" . Magazine catch is stamped "LB", but I cannot find any markings on the sear (still has some gunk on it though - a job for another day). The breech bolt head catch plate (what a mouthful) is stamped "LB", so I think the entire assembly (sear, magazine catch, sear spring) is original. The safety catch looks to be stamped with a "B" and a board arrow. The rear sight is a Fazakerley Mk.1 micrometer sight. There is a "rust" star stamp on top of the receiver, just in front of a 5-pointed star stamp (the stamp is incomplete, so I cannot work out the lettering inside the stamp).

Barrel - stamped with serial number matching the receiver, dated '42 with the correct inspection stamps, etc. Importers mark at end of muzzle (fortunately not too noticeable). I cannot find any damage that would relate to the "rust" stamp mentioned above - must look harder lol.

Bolt - handle correctly serialed to the receiver and barrel (not a force-match), has "LB" stamp and "crossed flags" stamp in correct places. Cocking piece is replacement, stamped "N67 Mk.II". Bolt head is stamped with the Savage "S" and there are no other markings (I know that Savage helped Long Branch out several times with parts, and vice versa, including 1941, so the bolt head may be original, but we will never know).

wood - butt stamped with Savage "S", has arsenal heel repair. Cannot find any marking on forend, but it is an obvious replacement. The forend cap is stamped with "F" over "55" and maybe "O" over "21". The forend wood has some "tiger stripping" and has a red tint, so stained beech? Front handguard cap stamped with "S.M.", so obviously a replacement.

Magazine - stamped with broad arrow and "KO" on back of rib on back of magazine. There are some other marks, but they are mostly obliterated. The magazine has been serialed for 3 rifles, my rifle being the last. Magazine follower stamped with "F49"

Front sight protector, bands - unstamped - nada.

Trigger, trigger guard - trigger with Savage "S" stamp and some other stamps that look like inspection stamps, trigger guard has a big partial "B" (?) stamped next to, and under, the loop, and a "3" on the other side.

That is enough for one night. Opinions - who thinks that this can/should be put back to 1941 configuration?
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Well, me for one! If you can find the parts...
 
Thanks, Cantom (I seem to remember you helping me with a similar potential project, but my memory isn't what it used to be...lol)

The crux of any restoration would be to find the rarest part(s) before even doing a thing. From researching another 1941 Long Branch project, the rarest part is the walnut forend with the low right-hand wall, notch for the bolt release catch, chamfered hole for the king screw and NO serial number stamped on it, followed far behind by the correct "LB" stamped Mk.1 rear sight, "LB" stamped button-style cocking piece, etc (this rifle would have been assembled way after the days of the hinged upper band and the waisted foresight protector). If someone can help me locate an early forend, then I might just try to do a restoration. If not, then I will just enjoy the rifle in its current shape - 1941 Long Branches are rare in any state lol.
 
I don't think I would avoid looking for the correct metal bits just because you don't have a stock. The rear sights aren't that difficult to find. The thick front barrel band shouldn't be too difficult. The cocking piece could be more of a challenge. I found a good forend for one of mine, but it was serial numbered and it took some time to find it. I would make it a long term project and enjoy the rifle in the mean time. My 2 groove '41 shoots extremely well and I have had a ball taking it to the range. The only down side is that most other folks at the range don't understand the significance of the rifle and wonder why I keep doing this :dancingbanana: when I talk about it. I haven't fired the 5 groove '41 yet, but one of these days...
 
If the right metal bits turn up, then I will buy them (there may be future 1941 Long Branch restoration projects - I seem to have a knack at finding these rifles lol), but money is tight at the moment (expecting a new baby in March - woohoo!!), so things are on hold a little (at least until I sell my Enforcer). I have been enjoying, and will continue to enjoy, this rifle, and I am in no hurry :)
 
It would be interesting to see roughly when the change over happened from 1941 barrels to 1942 barrels, and the serial numbers may give us a VERY rough idea regarding how many of each were manufactured (obviously, barrels were easier and quicker to produce than receivers, and there would be plenty of overlap as assemblers just grabbed the next barrel on the rack). Can14, do you happen to have photos of your 1941 Long Branches? If you do, would you mind sharing? (heck, the things I do to see a Long Branch lol)
 
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