Model 71/84 Mauser

stevejones

stevejones

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Courtenay, BC
So..what have I got here? I believe it to be a carbine model. There is a missing/removed part on the bottom of the barrel about 3 inches from the muzzle that could have been a bayonet lug. Overall condition appears very good for its age. Bore is bright and rifling is deep. Danzig marked on the barrel in front of the receiver. Barrel length from muzzle to the end of the octagon is just over 25 inches. The ladder sight is gone and a flip up sight is there, but it looks like it came with it from the manufacturer. Serial number is 3534. Stock is really nice with tiger striping. Any idea on its value?

Cheers. Steve.
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Could be a great shooter, though!

These old Mausers are just a ball of fun. Correct ammo is .43 Mauser, as it was called here when last made (1968) or 11.15x60R is one must be European/metric. Come to think of it, the rifle is European and metric! This was a .43-77-386 cartridge. Bullet was .446", charge was 77 grains of FFg (or 29 grains of SR-4759) and the bullet was a flat-nosed 386-grainer.

One of these will flatten anything in North America, even though they aren't powerful enough in some jurisdicta.... and you can't hunt with it in Black Powder season, even though it IS a genuine, Nineteenth-Century Black Powder rifle: the muzzle-loader guys have got that all tied up with their straight-line rifles, scope sights, forged-copper bullets and pelletized semi-smokeless powder, none of which were available when this rifle was new.

Originally the 1871/84 Mauser had a longer barrel and stock. Magazine was full-length to the front of the fore-end and only about 4 inches of barrel poked out. They were very well-made of the best materials. The standard of workmanship in these old Army rifles puts most of the modern factories to shame.

Okay, so it's not worth much. It's a start and it could be a lot of fun.

Enjoy!
 
So its a shooter then....I hope

Well. I have some brass and some original dominion ammo (which I do not think I will use...) and some bullets. I thought the piece under the barrel near the muzzle may have been a bayonet lug but I suppose its something else. No big deal. I'm not into it for much anyway. So any suggestions on what to use? I'd like to use smokeless.

Cheers. Steve
 
Agreed on about $150-$200. They're a whack of fun to shoot.

Similar to a 45/70 in BP loads.


Edit: The cut off bit was a long ball ended pin, for stacking the rifles in a pyramid.

Smokeless is doable, I was PM'ed information on it a while ago but lost it.

Just remember, these actions were definitely NOT made for smokeless. They aren't that strong in relation to their case size when considered to smokeless powder. Still, it's doable.
 
Value is out of proportion to it's effectiveness, the $150 rifle has alot of knockdown power with a 380 gr. soft cast bullet and a full case of black powder is certainly suitable for anything up to and including Moose/Elk. Similar to the 45/70 in killing power, except for heavy smokeless loads which are a no no in this early repeater. Keep this puppy and enjoy firing it, slug your barrel to determine bullet size and your off.
 
reloading

So, I've got some brass made by Bertram (Australian) and I'm running it through a re-sizing die as it is straight walled. I have some SR-4759 I hope is usable. Otherwise I guess bp is the way to go. If I go this way I know the case has to be filled but I'd like to start with around 70 grains and if the case is not filled top it up with cream of wheat.

Cheers. the victim of Bubba...
 
Smokeless loads for the M71 and M71/84 are easy - just use any of the 45/70 loads for the Springfield Trapdoor, that are available from most of the powder manufacturers. The M71/84 has an action that is stronger than the trapdoor, so you're well within its limits. I have found Unique, SR-4759 and H4198 to be good performers. Anything slower (like Varget) work, but will likely give inconsistent MV's and unburnt powder, as they will be working well below their intended lower pressure limit.

If you use smokeless, you'll want to crimp the bullet so that it will hold fast when loaded from the tube magazine. Bullets are your bigger challenge (once you've found brass). They are non-standard at 0.446", so for cast you're best advised to go in the 0.446-0.448" range.
 
Sr-4759

I found a thread that mentions SR-4759 was made to sub. bp. By taking the bp charge and multiplying by 38% you would use that amount of SR-4759. I have 2 lbs of it to play with. I will definetly use bp as it is the only thing you can use at rendevous. So does Lee make a mold? Or were can I go to buy some cast stuff?

Cheers. The victim
 
Ben Hunchak can help you with cast bullets for it.

22-24 grs of SR-4759 would be the ticket for a 405 gr bullet.
 
Which rifle was first the chassepot/gras or the mauser??

They both look so much alike.

Also was this rifle origionally a single shot needle gun then converted to single shot brass cartridge then a magasine repeater??

Great looking rifle!
 
The 71/84 is a replacement for the M71 single shot bolt gun, P. Mausers first bolt gun. Not orig. a needle gun like the Dreyse, but may borrow some features.
 
The 71/84 rifle I had years ago had a straight bolt handle.
The 71 carbine I also had at that time, however, had a turned-down bolt handle, as yours appears to be in the photos.
I would say that if your bolt body is numbered the same as the receiver, and has not been altered, you have a genuine carbine, which is considerably rarer than the rifle.
Regards, DaveF.
 
A large number of I/G (Infanterie Gewehr aka Infantry Rifle) 1871/84 had their bolt handles turned down by importers over the years. A real carbine will be marked Kar and not IG.
 
Mauser came out first in 1871, modded to a repeater for German service in 1884.

Chassepot came out in 1866 as a needle-gun, was superceded by the Gras conversion to cartridge and the new-production Gras cartridge rifles in 1874.

The Mauser was the first and, in my opinion anyway, the best of the European bolt rifles.

Best of the American bolt rifles was the Canadian-designed, Remington-produced LEE of 1879, which was made in .45-70 and .43 Spanish, bought by the British and manufactured first as a .402 and then as a .303 until the 1950s, then as a 7.62 NATO for sniping and now back into production in several calibres in Australia. I want a .43 Lee but can't afford one! Waaah!

Original Mauser ammo used the same charge as your rifle but the bullet was a true round-nose. This was altered to a flat-tipped roundnose when the repeating rifles came into use in 1884, but the charge remained at 77 grains with the 386-grain bullet. Nominal bore diameter was .433" and Text Book of Small Arms - 1909 gives .433" as the bullet diameter, although bullets were paper-patched. If one were paper-patching, one COULD get away with a so-called .44 slug, this being only .004" smaller, which can be made up by ONE turn of paper, then whatever you need to bring your bullet to size for the rifling.

With a bullet of this weight, you would use 29 grains of SR-4759. This charge is arrived at by multiplying the Black charge by 38 percent, so .38x77=29. You can use SR-4759 in this ratio as a Black substitute safely in just about all Black-powder original rifles. Pressures and velocities will mimic your factory ammo and the accuracy will be good and clean-up is just the same as with any smokeless powder: a snap. This ratio used to be recommended in the manuals and still is.... if your manuals are old enough editions!

Whatever you do, be sure that you have lots of fun with the old Mouser. They can be a lot of fun to play with. Around here, lots of old guys fed their families for decades with rifles like yours.
 
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