Model 71/84 Mauser

Carbine?

DaveF said:
The 71/84 rifle I had years ago had a straight bolt handle.
The 71 carbine I also had at that time, however, had a turned-down bolt handle, as yours appears to be in the photos.
I would say that if your bolt body is numbered the same as the receiver, and has not been altered, you have a genuine carbine, which is considerably rarer than the rifle.
Regards, DaveF.
Click to expand...

Ok, So I have another Mouser that is longer. It has been modified too... but it is 6 inches longer. It too is missing the piece on the barrel used to rack the rifle. It has the same missing piece for stacking. So...if my rifle in question is not a carbine why is the stacking pin (?) were it is. If it the barrel had been shortened wouldn't the piece for stacking be gone? I hope this question makes sense...

Cheers. the victim....
 
Easy to tell which Model it is, look at the markings on the receiver:

- K Mod. 71 = Cavalry Carbine

- IG Mod. 71 = Infantry Rifle

- JG Mod. 71 = Jaeger Rifle

- IG Mod. 71/84 = Infantry rifle
 
Compare them

So you can see some obvious differences. The next one has a straight bolt and of course a longer barrel. They have the same marking on the receiver shown in the last photo. You can see the racking pins and please note they are 6 inches apart.

2uthgup.jpg

ildobb.jpg

oavllz.jpg

imph6s.jpg

acvloi.jpg

dxhhe1.jpg


Cheers. The victim
 
Both are badly butchered Infanterie Gewehr Model 1871/84 Rifles and definitely not Carbines.
 
You seem to be having difficulty accepting that those are two heavily (and poorly) modified M71/84's. One has had its barrel shortened, and both have had the wood and magazine tube shortened, but to different lengths. One has had its bolt handle bent slightly.

M71/84's in the condition like yours are sadly very common, and worth perhaps $100-150, for the most part for their parts, although they could be shot. One of these rifles in excellent original condition is a thing of beauty, perhaps the best of the mausers, although the Argentine and Brazilian M98's were works of art as well.

smellie said:
....With a bullet of this weight, you would use 29 grains of SR-4759. This charge is arrived at by multiplying the Black charge by 38 percent, so .38x77=29. You can use SR-4759 in this ratio as a Black substitute safely in just about all Black-powder original rifles. Pressures and velocities will mimic your factory ammo and the accuracy will be good and clean-up is just the same as with any smokeless powder: a snap. This ratio used to be recommended in the manuals and still is.... if your manuals are old enough editions!.....
Click to expand...

That's a useful rule-of-thumb - another is 40% of H4198. You'll notice that trapdoor loads with that bullet are typically 32.0 grs, which fits the formula.

From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook:

45/70 Bullet weight: 420 grs.

70.0 grs./ FFG / 1,268 f.p.s. / 16,400 C.U.P.
28.5 grs./ 4198 / 1,267 f.p.s. / 13,900 C.U.P.

Interesting that less pressure was produced with the smokeless load.
 
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I just wonder why the urge to shoot smokeless powder? Clean-up is not all that difficult if you have a funnel and hot water. And it's lots of fun to stink-out the guy next to you on the range. Cases; a container of soapy water to dump the fired cases in after you shoot them will take care of any BP fouling.
A REAL carbine will have the wood extending to the end of the barrel and one heck of a lot SHORTER barrel! 29.44 inches, AND it going to be a SINGLE SHOT
 
There were a FEW 1871/84 Carbines manufactured, stamped Kar 1871/84 on the frame. I have been privileged to handle exactly ONE, and that was many years ago. Fortunately, it had a good home, which saved me from 5 years in HM Prison, which doubtless is where I would have ended up had I decided to 'rescue' it from its (very happy) owner.

So they're butchered? So what?

They are STILL two of the finest black-powder rifles ever made and you can still have a LOT of fun with them.

I went through a long period, mostly for reasons of health, of not being able to purchase the nice ones. So I took the junkers that nobody else wanted. My 'collection' looks like the scrap-heap of a dozen wars, but you can still shoot them, still appreciate them, still have a lot of fun with them.

Load up some shells, take your girls out to the range and enjoy what they have to offer. They'll love you for it and do their best. You might get some odd looks at first, but it won't take the other guys very long at all to realise that 'less than perfection' can still be enjoyable.

Then, just to rub it in, go out this Fall and bag yourself a Moose with one of them. When the guys with the Weatherbys ask what rifle you used, just say quietly "Original Mauser. Forty-three calibre.".... and leave them guessing!

BTW, hit a Moose with one of those, you can hear the "WHACK!" a hundred yards away. MOST satisfying.

Good luck!
 
Shooten 'em

Well, I'm into the process of reloading for these 2 . As mentioned earlier I have a box of new Bertram brass. It comes over length and straight walled (why I have no idea) so it had to be shortened and then re-sized first. A fair bit of work but it will be worth it once they get shooting. Both have excellent bores so the results should be satisfactory.
I agree that its a shame to see what has been done to them, from a collectors/enthusiast point of view. When you consider the amount of milsurp guns that have had this done to it really seems a shame. But you only have to try to hunt with any one of these guns the way they come to appreciate why it was done. Trying to negotiate a full length 43 through dense brush and then bringing it on target in close quarters would be a frustrating experience to say the least. I will be hunting with a bp gun but it will be my Parker Hale Musketoon. The bush on Vancouver Island makes Cambodia look like Kansas, For that matter my centerfire is a Ruger#1 with a 20 inch barrel.
Anyway, maybe some day I will be lucky enough to come across one of these beauties in original un butchered condition. There's a bunch on Gun Broker but as they are not "antiques" there is no way I can bring one across the border...

Cheers. Steve.
 
Any mauser 71/84 should be an antique in US terms, just not in canadian. To bring a US antique/Canadian non-antique across the border simply requires that you register it first. The harsh controls are on the US side for exporting firearms. Under the US gun control act of 1968, the US federal government in forbidden to treat pre-1899 cartridge guns as firearms. Since they aren't firearms for the purposes of the harsh export controls, all you need ot do is make sure they are registered before crossing the border.

J
 
Crosing the border

achtanelion said:
Any mauser 71/84 should be an antique in US terms, just not in canadian. To bring a US antique/Canadian non-antique across the border simply requires that you register it first. The harsh controls are on the US side for exporting firearms. Under the US gun control act of 1968, the US federal government in forbidden to treat pre-1899 cartridge guns as firearms. Since they aren't firearms for the purposes of the harsh export controls, all you need ot do is make sure they are registered before crossing the border.

J
Click to expand...

So how would I get my ducks lined up properly?

Cheers. Steve.
 
3 simple steps.

1) Buy!

2) Register

3) Ship

It helps if you have a place that can hold onto it in the states while you reigster it, but that's more for handguns than rifles. A 71/84 is quite long enough to fit comfortably in the non-restricted class, hell at 53 inches it should qualify as double non-restricted. ;-)

All the US cares about is that you're not exporting a firearm (from a legal perspective, anyways)

All Canada cares about is that it gets registered.

Have fun!

J
 
It depends on the individual seller whether they'll ship to Canada. Some will, some won't. It helps if you have someone in the states you can have stuff shipped to who will then re-ship it up here.

J
 
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