Safest action?

manbearpig

manbearpig

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I realize that this is a somewhat subjective question, but are there any actions that stand out as the strongest/safest in terms of handling excessive pressure, ability to handle case failures, etc?
(not limited to bolt actions - but all actions including single shots like the Ruger #1.)

conversely, are there any common actions that are notoriously bad at the above?
 
The strongest, safest 2 locking lug action that has ever been produced is the Remington 700. There is no other 2 lug action that comes close to the gas control ability of a factory 700 action when a catastrophic case failure occurs.
 
Shows my age but my vote goes for the 98 Mauser after that come all the wannabees, 3 lugs and has stood the test of time. I do have a Weatherby, Ruger #1 and a 700 Rem . all good rifles. --- John303.
 
Most of the modern falling blocks like the #1 and the recent production 1885's are very strong and probably stronger than the various Mauser variants on the market today.
 
I guess a Type 38 Arisaka would be no slouch...not sure how it compares to a modern production rifle.....I have a few 700's and an Arisaka but I havent' tried to blow up either of them yet.
 
guntech said:
The strongest, safest 2 locking lug action that has ever been produced is the Remington 700. There is no other 2 lug action that comes close to the gas control ability of a factory 700 action when a catastrophic case failure occurs.
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This sounds like a question for the precision rifle guys. But seeing as how the Remington 700 has long been the standard, I would agree with Guntech. Strongest and stiffest gives the best accuracy also.

A lot of guys load target rifles beyond the recommended max because of the inherent strength. In one instance, a scribe loaded his Remington .222 or .222magnum with fast burning pistol powder by accident. He got a good jolt and had to take the rifle to a smith to get it apart; when they did, it was found that the case walls were fused to the chamber and had to be reamed out. No other damage to shooter or rifle was sustained.

I don't think as strong as some of the actions are that a falling block could equal a rotating bolts strength due to it being locked by a cam.

On a similar note, the garand is reportedly extremely strong and sustained testing at 2 or 3 times the recommended max cup. Not sure which brand was tested.
 
1903 Springfield production with the double heat treatment. Takes many compressed charges of FAST PISTOL POWDER and doesn't break. Peak pressures 175000PSI+. Barrel will actually fail but the action is still good.

from Hatcher's notebook.
 
To further the above question for worst, I would hazard that the trapdoor would be lowest on the strength scale or maybe not exactly pertinant to your inquirey the Flowbert. Also the old low pressure round pumps and levers.

Not inclusive of course to the Remington 760, 7600 and the Marlin 1895 which are brutally strong with many people loading them to elephant stopping type power levels with 400 gr. bullets being driven at 2100 or 2200 fps.

There is a company that tunes the 1895 and offers it in a .50 cal persuasion for a substantial increase over 45-70 or .450 Marlin power levels. I think it's loaded for about 4500 ft lbs. with 450 gr. or 500 gr. bullets?
 
guntech said:
The strongest, safest 2 locking lug action that has ever been produced is the Remington 700. There is no other 2 lug action that comes close to the gas control ability of a factory 700 action when a catastrophic case failure occurs.
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I've heard the gas control ability of the 700 touted many times, and I've become very curious. What specifically about it is so advantageous? Why doesn't everyone do it that way? Blueprints/diagrams?
 
flick said:
I've heard the gas control ability of the 700 touted many times, and I've become very curious. What specifically about it is so advantageous? Why doesn't everyone do it that way? Blueprints/diagrams?
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A brass cartridge case is simply a gasket that seals normal high pressure in the barrel and chamber...

When a catastrophic case failure occurs extremely high pressure is released back into the action... this escaping gas causes extractors to become projectiles, floor plates to bend, and in some cases actions to distort or blow up.

When Remington first came on the market with the 700 and advertised how the cartridge head is enclosed in 3 rings of steel... this was not just advertising hype... The design of the 700 extractor allows the rear of the barrel to enclose the bolt head (which is enclosing the cartridge head). The barrel in turn is enclosed by the action. This adds up to the best 'seal' that can be had.

Look at a 700 bolt with a cartridge in it... now imagine how the bolt nose fits into the barrel... see how difficult it would be for gas to escape from a ruptured case... they is no way the extractor can 'blow' anywhere... it never becomes a projectile.

Action strength does not come from just 'strong steel'... the design is the most important part.

This is a picture of a strong Sako action that blew up... the "bolt guide" acted as a deflector for the extractor that became a projectile but the escaping gas overpowered the strength of the steel. Notice the mag box and bottom metal are distorted as well. Stock was in many pieces.

243blowupaction-0.jpg
 
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^as a side note i see Weatherby touting the 'three rings of steel' recently too. i would have thought Remington had that phrase trademarked by now.

Roy Weatherby’s Mark V® action changed the face of American firearms. Introduced in 1958, billed as “the world’s strongest bolt action,” it features three rings of steel surrounding the casehead, fluted bolt body with three gas ports, and nine locking lugs (six on non-magnum models) for a short 54-degree bolt lift.
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not sure how theyre getting 3 rings of steel either, seeing as they have the claw type extractor.
 
manbearpig said:
^as a side note i see Weatherby touting the 'three rings of steel' recently too. i would have thought Remington had that phrase trademarked by now.
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The Weatherby Mark V action doesn't compare well to a 700.

I thought Weatherby used that ad many years ago and discontinued it after a discussion with Remington... ?
 
Ok, without a 700 lying around to look at, the discussion prompted me to GIS "remington 700 extractor". Here's what came up:

RSperfect_102605B.jpg


Left to right: Mauser, Ruger, Remington.

I did not know how unique a 700 bolt face and extractor was before. In spite of the fact that they are deemed very safe, it seems that I frequently hear of them breaking on difficult to extract cases. Is reliability really sacrificed for safety with this design, or do they just fail more frequently because handloaders are comfortable pushing them harder?

If gases don't escape through the extractor slot, where do they go when a case fails in a 700?
 
What I wonder is this... Why would a 2 lug design (Rem 700 and others) be stronger than a 9 lug like the Weatherby where it is true that laminate structures are stronger than solid structure of a similar thickness. Nine small lugs are less likely to give than 2 large lugs. Also one has to consider that the Weatherby design has to deal with some of the most powerful cartridges in their given sizes out there. This is more of a curiosity thing than trying to expound the virtues of Weatherby, but the comment was made that the 700's bolt /action faired better than the Weatherby and I'm just curious as to why.
 
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flick said:
I did not know how unique a 700 bolt face and extractor was before. In spite of the fact that they are deemed very safe, it seems that I frequently hear of them breaking on difficult to extract cases. Is reliability really sacrificed for safety with this design, or do they just fail more frequently because handloaders are comfortable pushing them harder?

If gases don't escape through the extractor slot, where do they go when a case fails in a 700?
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Considering over 8 million 700's have been produced, a few that had an extractor malfunction are few and far between.

I have hung over 200 pounds off a 700 extractor with no problem...

If the case ruptures gases are vented out a small hole on the side of the receiver and through the firing pin hole and out a hole on the bottom of the bolt.

Over 40 years ago I saw the results of a .303 British cartridge fired in a 7mm Mag 700. The back of the case expanded to fit the bolt face and chamber, the bullet went out the barrel, the case did not rupture, the rifle was not damaged. He could not open the bolt though and I removed the barrel in order to do that. Just assembled it after removing the case and checked the headspace and it was good to go...

Weatherby's extractor is not contained within '3 rings of steel' as a 700 extractor is.

Personally I have never had a 700 extractor fail.. I have repaired a few for customers in over 40 years of smithing.
 
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