A small question about casting bullets (wrinkled / missing bits)
- Thread starter 762mm
- Start date
To cure that problem or at least minimize it you need to remove machining impurities between the rod and the nozzle.
Drain and clean the pot out, remove the the operating arm thing and set it aside. Get some valve polishing compound from Canadian Tire etc. basically it is very fine sand in a grease base, small bottle is all you need.
Take a cordless screw driver/drill and put a slot end on it that matches the slot end on the end of the rod.
Now put some polishing compound on the round end of the rod and lay the rod down on the side of the pot so it is about the same angle as it normally sits. Slowly turn the rod with the drill, just enough to be about 2 seconds per revolution.
Pull the rod out and with a q-tip get most of the compound out of the nozzle and wipe the rod off. Repeat again a few more times.
You will start to see a ring around the end of the nozzle where the sand has been polishing the nozzle. I did mine about 10 times, didn't take that long and clean the pot out good.
Now you will find that the pot will have way less drips if it drips at all. I added some weight to the end of the lever and mine never drips.
Thanks again guys! This answers pretty much all my questions... and then some! I can't wait till I get a day off to give it another go. I am satisfied with the bullets that turned out ok so far, but with this new info I am sure I'll be able to get them all up to specs! (and not just 1/3 of them, lol)
I will also try to figure out a way to melt large quantities of lead in the future... I was looking at my wheel weights bucket today and I was trying to imagine how much time it'll take to melt it all in a Lee pot, lol... and just looking at it seemed a bit discouraging to say the least. But it will have to be done... I only wish I knew a couple of months ago what I know now... because I would've bought a 20 lb pot instead of my 10 lb.
I will also try to figure out a way to melt large quantities of lead in the future... I was looking at my wheel weights bucket today and I was trying to imagine how much time it'll take to melt it all in a Lee pot, lol... and just looking at it seemed a bit discouraging to say the least. But it will have to be done... I only wish I knew a couple of months ago what I know now... because I would've bought a 20 lb pot instead of my 10 lb.
Mine drips too... but it depends on the position of the rod that controls the flow. If I move the rod to the middle, dripping slows down or stops. If it's off center, it starts dripping again. Kind of a stupid system, as the rod should be attached permanently in the center.
Speaking of melters and the way they're designed.. Lee seems to have something new in their product line.. the "Lee Pro 4-20". Seems interesting, especially because it has twice the capacity of mine. I wonder if it drips though...
http ://factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/melters.html
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I just built a bracket on the back of my rcbs melter and mounted the lee 10 pound on top so that I always have heated ready to go lead. I add the WW lead to the top 10 lb pot and fill the bottom rcbs pot also. As I start to pour from the bottom pot and the lead level starts to drop I just open the nose on the top one to top it off. I add any more lead to the top pot only and have the bottom on controlled with a PID controller for perfect temperature control. I can make a lot of bullets this way and very few rejects.
There is no reason you couldn't mount your 10 lb pot above a Lee 20 pound one the same way as I have.
There is no reason you couldn't mount your 10 lb pot above a Lee 20 pound one the same way as I have.
blacksmithden
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No....it's the "Lee-ko-matic" LOL. Mine did the same thing. The heating element died on mine after my 3rd casting session. I took it apart and put it on top of a small camp burner and used it that way for a while. Eventually, I got tired having to balance the pot on top of the burner just right so that the lead didn't drip into the burner. The whole issue wound up in the garbabe. Now I'm spoiled...RCBS Promelt
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Sounds like you either let your mould cool off (likely) or that when you cranked up the heat you may have burned the tin out of the alloy.
Aluminum in your pot will mess things up too. I wonder if the non-lead weights mightn't have contaminated your pot/melt.
Aluminum in your pot will mess things up too. I wonder if the non-lead weights mightn't have contaminated your pot/melt.
I've had my Saeco pot well over 800 degrees (like glowing dull red
) and had no issues with the tin 'burning out' of my alloy. The bullets cast very well, too.When I processed the last batch of WW into ingots, the first thing I did was get all the weights through the pot. I looked into the zinc weight thing, and my experiences followed what I had read, that it is hard to actually get one to melt without trying, if you are watching the melt take place and skimming clips while adding a bit of flux. They float pretty well, and are kind of obvious when they are sitting there.
I could see it being tougher if doing larger lots in a turkey burner, where the temp can rise pretty fast, and the volume of material can hide a few surprises..
I think most of the guys that complain about alloy separation have no idea how dirty their ingots are. Or are habitually boiling their metal. Dunno. I make nasty looking ingots the first melt, clean out the pot (sandblast it out) then process the WW metal into ingots. Always got lots of filth the second run through too. Once that was all cleaned up, I made 'pretty' ingots for sticking on the shelf.
After I made ingots, I weighed out a few batches to 'sweeten' with some added tin, using lead free solder to bring the tin content up by 2 percent or so, melted them and made bullets. Very little dross or residue appearing in the pot by this time, which is why I started to think that the problem is that the metal is not near as clean as some guys think.
I'm keeping my temperatures as low as I can when processing, so I doubt I am 'losing' any alloy content that way. The burning paint, grease, tire rubber etc, sure do make a mess too.
My best advice to the OP. Hit the Castboolits forum and start reading. Huge amounts of info. You will soon enough figure out what is wheat and what is chaff, as far as the opinions go, and that there are a lot of ways to get good results.
These are my opinions and what works for me in my limited casting.
Cheers
Trev
Update
Hey guys,
So, I had a chance to give casting another shot today (day off work well spent, haha!). Being armed with the new information you all supplied (many thanks once again!), I hit the casting bench like a bat out of hell this morning... Three hours later, I had approx 300+ perfect cast bullets in two different calibers (one was a Lee aluminum mold, the other a NEI iron mold). When I compare the before/after, I can see at least a 300% improvement in my casting performance (bullet quality). I only rejected the first few bullets out of each of the molds. The rest were smooth and shiny silver-color with no wrinkles or other issues. Here's what I learned & corrected in my casting procedures:
- The lead has to be preheated on the max setting (setting "9") and fluxed/cleaned from debris; then the (cleaned/degreased) mold has to be put on the lead and has to stay there for at least 5 minutes or so.
- The meter's spout was cleaned with a piece of thin bent wire. Once I stuck the wire in there and moved it around, perfect flow was restored instantly. This intervention was repeated 2-3 times throughout the casting session, as the spout would sometimes clog up with debris and lead flow would be reduced.
- Once the mold was removed from the lead after a few minutes, I smoked it with a candle. I then reduced the temp to setting "7" as suggested and began casting.
- The first bullets wouldn't solidify for a few minutes (mold/metal too hot). I waited until it finally set and rejected those first two bullets + the two after that. Scrap lead was NOT going back to the pot, as opposed to what I was doing on my first casting session (when I didn't know better).
- After the third batch, the mold/lead temp stabilized and every single casting after that yielded perfect cast bullets. I was casting as if I were in a hurry, pouring fast and getting the bullets out as soon as the lead on top solidified (3-4 seconds).
- Important note: it is imperative to discard any bullets with imperfections or small wrinkles. I reloaded some .45 ACP/Schofield today with the bullets from my first casting session (the one where things got messed up) and all the bullets I decided to keep despite minor imperfections were loose. In other words, their diameter was not up to spec (too small) and they're useless. I'll be melting them down next time I cast.
By the way... I also noticed something interesting with the Lee Production Pot IV. Many of you say that the lead should stay up to 40 minutes until it reaches optimal (very hot) temperature, but mine took approx 15-20 minutes to get to a point where the lead in the mold wouldn't even set because of how hot it was... is that normal or is my melting pot on steroids? I had it on the max setting for the warm-up procedure and it seems to get up there really fast. I just hope it doesn't mean the freakin thing will die on me imminently, lol!
Hey guys,
So, I had a chance to give casting another shot today (day off work well spent, haha!).
Being armed with the new information you all supplied (many thanks once again!), I hit the casting bench like a bat out of hell this morning... Three hours later, I had approx 300+ perfect cast bullets in two different calibers (one was a Lee aluminum mold, the other a NEI iron mold). When I compare the before/after, I can see at least a 300% improvement in my casting performance (bullet quality). I only rejected the first few bullets out of each of the molds. The rest were smooth and shiny silver-color with no wrinkles or other issues. Here's what I learned & corrected in my casting procedures:- The lead has to be preheated on the max setting (setting "9") and fluxed/cleaned from debris; then the (cleaned/degreased) mold has to be put on the lead and has to stay there for at least 5 minutes or so.
- The meter's spout was cleaned with a piece of thin bent wire. Once I stuck the wire in there and moved it around, perfect flow was restored instantly. This intervention was repeated 2-3 times throughout the casting session, as the spout would sometimes clog up with debris and lead flow would be reduced.
- Once the mold was removed from the lead after a few minutes, I smoked it with a candle. I then reduced the temp to setting "7" as suggested and began casting.
- The first bullets wouldn't solidify for a few minutes (mold/metal too hot). I waited until it finally set and rejected those first two bullets + the two after that. Scrap lead was NOT going back to the pot, as opposed to what I was doing on my first casting session (when I didn't know better).
- After the third batch, the mold/lead temp stabilized and every single casting after that yielded perfect cast bullets. I was casting as if I were in a hurry, pouring fast and getting the bullets out as soon as the lead on top solidified (3-4 seconds).
- Important note: it is imperative to discard any bullets with imperfections or small wrinkles. I reloaded some .45 ACP/Schofield today with the bullets from my first casting session (the one where things got messed up) and all the bullets I decided to keep despite minor imperfections were loose. In other words, their diameter was not up to spec (too small) and they're useless. I'll be melting them down next time I cast.
By the way... I also noticed something interesting with the Lee Production Pot IV. Many of you say that the lead should stay up to 40 minutes until it reaches optimal (very hot) temperature, but mine took approx 15-20 minutes to get to a point where the lead in the mold wouldn't even set because of how hot it was... is that normal or is my melting pot on steroids? I had it on the max setting for the warm-up procedure and it seems to get up there really fast. I just hope it doesn't mean the freakin thing will die on me imminently, lol!
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Go onto the Castboolits site and search the term "PID". Stands for Proportional, Integral, Derivitive, IIRC.
It is used in reference to a digital temperature controller for the melting pots.
Some good stuff there.
Know a welder?
Get to Princess Auto's store or website, and look for a digital multimeter with a temperature readout, that includes a thermocouple. They were on sale for about $7, normally about $20, may still be on sale.
You grab about a foot of small stainless steel tubing, run the thermocouple wires through it and crimp the end over the wires. Then you take it to the welder and have a (preferably TIG) bead run across the end to seal the whole thing up. Easy temperature probe! Reads in degrees C, so you either work in C or have a chart on hand.
If you don't have a lead thermometer already, anyways.
Cheers
Trev
It is used in reference to a digital temperature controller for the melting pots.
Some good stuff there.
Know a welder?
Get to Princess Auto's store or website, and look for a digital multimeter with a temperature readout, that includes a thermocouple. They were on sale for about $7, normally about $20, may still be on sale.
You grab about a foot of small stainless steel tubing, run the thermocouple wires through it and crimp the end over the wires. Then you take it to the welder and have a (preferably TIG) bead run across the end to seal the whole thing up. Easy temperature probe! Reads in degrees C, so you either work in C or have a chart on hand.
If you don't have a lead thermometer already, anyways.
Cheers
Trev
Cool, thanks for sharing. Kind of a complicated exploit for someone who isn't an electrician, but I do enjoy the occasional challenge, lol. But.. as far as an actual temp gauge is concerned, how about one of those laser temperature meters that can measure from a certain distance? I've seen them on sale in numerous places, some for as low as 30$ sometimes. I've never had any use for one, but it seems reasonable to believe that they would work well for measuring surface temp of lead...
Here is a link for one of them at Canadian Tire. Max temp is 315C (599F) on this one, so I guess it wouldn't be sufficient... but there might be others out there that go beyond that temp limit. Thoughts?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...BDigital%2BTemperature%2BReader.jsp?locale=en
I remember reading on the cast boolits site that a few guys tried them and the temp. sensor had a real hard time picking up the temp. off of the surface of the lead.
I have never tried it myself but if all you want is a temperature read then just buy a lyman thermometer.
If you want to control your temperature to within 10 deg. F then get a PID setup.
Once you have a pot regulated with a PID you will wonder how the heck you did without it. You have about 2 rejects and then away you go and no more rejects until you are done.
With a 6 cavity mold I can average 10 bullets a minute and after a couple of hours I have enough to do me for a while.
I have never tried it myself but if all you want is a temperature read then just buy a lyman thermometer.
If you want to control your temperature to within 10 deg. F then get a PID setup.
Once you have a pot regulated with a PID you will wonder how the heck you did without it. You have about 2 rejects and then away you go and no more rejects until you are done.
With a 6 cavity mold I can average 10 bullets a minute and after a couple of hours I have enough to do me for a while.
Ahh... I get it. I've seen such things in action before, as my father had made one for an electric meat smoker about 15 years ago (specifically for cold smoking meat/fish).
That same idea for a melting pot does seem interesting! I'll definitely give it a closer look... as I thought that a PID was only a fancy real time thermometer which doesn't control the burner. I have been enlightened... yet again! Thanks!
I use a lead thermometers in both my ingot making pot and my Lee pot. lead melts at 621.43 °F while Zinc melts at 787.15 °F knowing you alloys temp especially at the ingot making process helps keep the Zinc out of your alloy,it also allow you to remove the majority of the crud before it gets to your casting pot.
The Lead thermometer also help you regulate you pot much better than the numbered dial on the Lee pots they use a different type of heating element than the Lyman or RCBS pots and temps can vary depending on alloy depth in the pot and ambient temperatures.
My Lyman mold generally run well at around 700 degrees my Lee molds like 825 to 850 degrees,I smoke my molds with a butane lighter when needed candles tend to leave a oily residue that produces bad bullets till it wears off.
For my iron molds and the sprue plates on the aluminum molds I coat then with USP Mineral oil,it preserves and protects the mold is non toxic,burns off completely and leaves no residue on the mold when preheated to temperature on a hot plate or on the side of the pot.
I have a PM sent to one of my friends on another forum who has a source for Lead thermometers which are the same as the ones sold by RotoMetals and Lyman at about half the cost that I will post when I get and answer.
Another good source for cast bullet info.
http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
The Lead thermometer also help you regulate you pot much better than the numbered dial on the Lee pots they use a different type of heating element than the Lyman or RCBS pots and temps can vary depending on alloy depth in the pot and ambient temperatures.
My Lyman mold generally run well at around 700 degrees my Lee molds like 825 to 850 degrees,I smoke my molds with a butane lighter when needed candles tend to leave a oily residue that produces bad bullets till it wears off.
For my iron molds and the sprue plates on the aluminum molds I coat then with USP Mineral oil,it preserves and protects the mold is non toxic,burns off completely and leaves no residue on the mold when preheated to temperature on a hot plate or on the side of the pot.
I have a PM sent to one of my friends on another forum who has a source for Lead thermometers which are the same as the ones sold by RotoMetals and Lyman at about half the cost that I will post when I get and answer.
Another good source for cast bullet info.
http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
