Old BSA .303

PaulR42

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This site was recommended by others to research an older rifle. It is stamped BSA, but the proof marks are a little different from others I have found on line. Most list a crown above the proof, but this doesn't exactly look like a crown. Some have suggested Siam (Thailand), I was thinking possibly India because of the tiger head stamp. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find details on this piece? So far I haven't even been able to locate the serial number. Could it be covered by the stock?
I guess as a new member, I can't post attachments yet. I don't know if this will work, but I have it posted on the Ontario Outdoors website.
http://forums.oodmag.com/showthread.php?t=21466
Thanks in advance.

Paul
 
Sounds like a "Siamese, smiling tiger" No1 MkIII* Called the "smiling tiger" for obvious reasons. It was a special stamp, for the Siamese order.
 
The Siamese Enfields tend to be pretty rusty, above and below the wood.

If yours isn't and it has a good bore, consider it unusually good for the type.

The Tiger head and Siamese writing on them makes them interesting but not wildly valuable.
 
True, not wildly valuable but that's because so many of them are toast.

They were built right after World War One - 1922 - by BSA as a commercial contract for the Siamese Government as weapons for a village militia scheme, the Wild Tiger Corps. The funny writing says that the rifles were the property of King Rama VI and give the Buddhist year of adoption which is, if I recall rightly, 532 years more, dating from the birth of Lord Gautama the Buddha.

There must have been official involvement in the purchase in some manner, because BSA evidently got permission to use wartime British-Army-marked small parts in these rifles, although at least the bolts, barrels and bodies (receivers) all were new manufacture. Some rifles you will find Broad-Arrow-stamped small parts in, but never the big parts, unless, of course, something has been changed. The actual order for the rifles was placed by the King himself, who had been a student at Sandhurst and had developed an appreciation for the simple and practical Lee-Enfield rifle. The regular Siamese Army at this time was equipped with Mausers, but the King's little Militia got the BEST.

There were only 10,000 rifles in the contract, making this one of the scarcest Lee-Enfields ever produced: about 1/10 of 1 percent of total production!

The squiggly thingies on the right-front of the Body and the Barrel adjacently are the serial numbers, in the unique Siamese numbering system. If you remove the fore-arm of the rifle, you will find that the good folks at BSA were kind enough to stamp the serial number AGAIN, this time in our numbers, just below the Siamese serial number, but hidden by the woodwork.

And here is a point to consider. In the Viet-Nam War, which lasted 11 years in all, the Americans found that the barrel on a Colt M1911A1 was lasting a WEEK in that awful climate. Your old rifle was in that same climate for 40 years! It is nothing short of a miracle that ANYTHING survived of these very rare, poorly-known, underappreciated and undervalued rifles.

You have a very real treasure: a rifle purchased personally by a King. Treat her well, tell her you love her and feed her either .312" flatbase bullets or cast-bullet handloads and she will do her level best to let you know that she REALLY appreciates being out of South-East Asia!
 
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wow! Never thought that the climate would decimate a rifle so badly! I have to say though, when I hear people talking about "oh the humidity!" here in Canada, I roll my eyes. They have no concept!:D
 
Some have suggested Siam (Thailand), I was thinking possibly India because of the tiger head stamp. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find details on this piece?


For reference and to compare, check the article with 106 pic photo montage titled 1920 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) Wild Tiger Corps No.1 MkIII* Riflehttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=182-1920-ShtLE-Wild-Tiger-Corps-No.1-MkIII*-Rifle in the United Kingdom - Knowledge Libraryhttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=120-united-kingdom

They only made 10,000 of these ...

The BSA serial number (in English) should be under the bolt arm ... ;)

Regards,
Badger
 
History

Man Smellie...you sure brought that story to life!

Ever considered being a history teacher??

NEVER BET WITH SMELLIE; YOU WILL LOSE. George majored in History, wrote his Thesis on Small Arms from 1812 to Battle of Second Ypres, and was a newspaper editor.

Add to that, a mind like a computer, a good library, an interesting array of firearms, and, he makes fairly good coffee.


,
 
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NEVER BET WITH SMELLIE; YOU WILL LOSE. George majored in History, wrote his Thesis on Small Arms from 1812 to Battle of Second Ypres, and was a newspaper editor.

Add to that, a mind like a computer, a good library, an interesting array of firearms, and, he makes fairly good coffee.


,

The coffee would do it for me...:p
 
For reference and to compare, check the article with 106 pic photo montage titled 1920 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) Wild Tiger Corps No.1 MkIII* Riflehttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=182-1920-ShtLE-Wild-Tiger-Corps-No.1-MkIII*-Rifle in the United Kingdom - Knowledge Libraryhttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=120-united-kingdom

They only made 10,000 of these ...

The BSA serial number (in English) should be under the bolt arm ... ;)

Regards,
Badger

That's the exact one. Thanks. Does this have any value? I've been trying to decide what to do with it.
 
:p
Paul- where is the detailed set of pics of your rifle, along with bore condition report and rust under the wood report?
How can anyone tell you anything sight unseen?

When I signed up, I tried to post a picture or 2 but I wasn't allowed. Do I need a certain number of posts before I can post a picture? If so, here is one more post toward the quote!:p
I really don't know how to quantify the bore or rust under the wood. I've been hesitant about trying to remove any part of the stock as I am no expert on this. Care to share some hints?

Thanks.

Paul
 
That's the exact one. Thanks. Does this have any value? I've been trying to decide what to do with it.

Is it "all matching"?

Example in Knowledge Library is "all matching". Serial number is 6393 as shown under bolt arm and also translated from this document.


(Click Pic to Enlarge)

(Click Pic to Enlarge)

(Click Pic to Enlarge)

Translated Siamese Script
"Rama VI Model 2462" (Buddhist Era or B.E. date). This is AD 1919 on Christian calendar.

Regards,
Badger
 
Is it "all matching"?

Example in Knowledge Library is "all matching". Serial number is 6393 as shown under bolt arm and also translated from this document.


(Click Pic to Enlarge)

(Click Pic to Enlarge)

(Click Pic to Enlarge)

Translated Siamese Script
"Rama VI Model 2462" (Buddhist Era or B.E. date). This is AD 1919 on Christian calendar.

Regards,
Badger

The number on the bolt does not match the number on the receiver which does match the number on the barrel. I can remove the section of the stock ahead of the chamber and underneath the rear site, there is a bit of pitting on the barrel, but the bore its self looks pretty good. No cracks in the stock, but several (many) small dings, but no peices missing.
 
The number on the bolt does not match the number on the receiver which does match the number on the barrel. I can remove the section of the stock ahead of the chamber and underneath the rear site, there is a bit of pitting on the barrel, but the bore its self looks pretty good. No cracks in the stock, but several (many) small dings, but no peices missing.

Still a valuable piece, although not quite as valuable, which is the case with any miss-matched item.

I'm not sure I'd mess around with it more ... your call ..

Regards,
Badger
 
Hello. I have one of these rifles, and the proper bayonet for them. The rifle is mis-matched bolt, but the bore is 6-7/10 and the outside metal almost has a patina to it, but no rust pitting. It is a very nice rifle, the bolt is smooth as a dream and she shoots darned well with spear point FMJ .311 diameter bullets ontop of a light load of IMR 4350. I hereby give you pictures to smile at. Cheers!
P3240002-1.jpg

P3240008.jpg

Siam1.jpg
 
Just thinking.....

There WERE only 10,000 of these critters to start with and it seems that just about ALL of them are mismatched.

Someone should start a registry of rifle and bolt numbers. The people could swap the bolts around and try to get their own bolts back into their own rifles.

Worth thinking about.
 
Just thinking.....

There WERE only 10,000 of these critters to start with and it seems that just about ALL of them are mismatched.

Someone should start a registry of rifle and bolt numbers. The people could swap the bolts around and try to get their own bolts back into their own rifles.

Worth thinking about.

Good idea..

We've been running one for about 4 years now ... :D

~Angel~'s "Match Making" Servicehttp://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

Regards,
Badger
 
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