Please help

Wrencher2008

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Please help a nood reloader......I just went out and got all my stuff for reloading the other day. I went to get powder today and was only able to get IMR 4320. The guy that sold it to me said it was good powder for .223. Here is my question ....I can not find any load data for this powder in my books or the internet. Here is what I have
Savage 10FCP .223 bolt action
55 grain Hornady FMJBT WC
So I need to know a starting and max load for IMR 4320
...or should I not use ??
Also, the bullet has a cannelure, Should I crimp ???
Thanks
 
here is info from the hodgdon website:

55 GR. SFIRE IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.220" 23.0 2796 39,300 PSI 25.5 3100 51,100 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.200" 23.5 2874 41,300 PSI 26.1C 3146 50,700 PSI

i wouldn't bother with the crimp on a bolt gun.
 
So it doesn't matter that those are not FMJBT bullets ???
The seating lengths are different. I don't want to do any harm to me or my firearm.Wow there are way too many bullets and powders available....really confusing :confused::confused:
 
Bullets that have a cannelure are meant to be crimped but I'm not sure how important that is.

More correctly,they have a cannelure in case you decide to crimp,it is not at all necessary to crimp them just because they have a cannelure.

The seating lengths are different. I don't want to do any harm to me or my firearm.

The best seating depth is dependent on the particular firearm,no manual can provide a seating depth that will work best in all firearms.
 
Actually, if you are not going to seat the bullet "properly" (ie, just off the lands in your chamber) then, for reliable accuracy, the bullet should be crimped. Seating the bullet by neck tension only can cause inaccuracies since all cases may not have the same tension. Seating the bullets just off the lands eliminates pressure jump and evens out the pressure curve when the round is fired. If you choose not to do that then you should crimp to achieve the same result.
The mechanics of the cartridge, once the trigger is pulled, goes something like this:
Primer ignites the powder, expanding gases increase pressure and the bullet begins to be forced out. If not crimped in place, the bullet "jumps" the distance until something stops it. In that case, it would be the lands. This causes a drop in the pressure curve followed by a spike as it comes to a stop and starts to build again. Seating your bullet out until it is just short of the lands eliminates this jump.
Bullet manufacturers can't do this so they crimp. That allows the pressure to build uniformly until the bullet "lets off" and exits the case. They crimp and so do I. But not everyone does, so it is up to you. Find the method that works for you and carry on. Good luck.
 
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Seating by neck tension alone does NOT often create inaccuracies, whether you seat close to the leade or not. Crimping is an option seldom used by experienced reloaders, particularly accuracy hounds. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Actually, if you are not going to seat the bullet "properly" (ie, just off the lands in your chamber) then, for reliable accuracy, the bullet should be crimped. Seating the bullet by neck tension only can cause inaccuracies since all cases may not have the same tension. Seating the bullets just off the lands eliminates pressure jump and evens out the pressure curve when the round is fired. If you choose not to do that then you should crimp to achieve the same result.
The mechanics of the cartridge, once the trigger is pulled, goes something like this:
Primer ignites the powder, expanding gases increase pressure and the bullet begins to be forced out. If not crimped in place, the bullet "jumps" the distance until something stops it. In that case, it would be the lands. This causes a drop in the pressure curve followed by a spike as it comes to a stop and starts to build again. Seating your bullet out until it is just short of the lands eliminates this jump.
Bullet manufacturers can't do this so they crimp. That allows the pressure to build uniformly until the bullet "lets off" and exits the case. They crimp and so do I. But not everyone does, so it is up to you. Find the method that works for you and carry on. Good luck.

Me thinks you read too much!
Many years ago, I used to teach people to fly airplanes. I will always remember when I was taking the training to become an instructor what they drilled into us.
They said don't tell a student anything that you can not demosnstrate to him/her.
You said seating a bullet well off the lands and not crimping it, would cause inaccuracies. Let's see you prove that to us.
You stated that if the bullet is seated off the lands, it starts to move as the powder is ignited, then stops when it hits the lands, pressure goes down, then pressure spikes as it starts o move again. I wouldn't ask you to prove this, but let's just use common sense. The primer fires, powder starts to burn, very rapidly and builds up pressure extremely fast. As a matter of fact, with bottle neck cartridges, the bullet has reached the speed of sound, by the time it has progressed 1½ to 2 inches down the barrel. Did you take your reading so serious that you actually thought the bullet stopped as it met some resistance from the lands, then started up again, as more pressure built?
The earlier British firearm experimenters were very meticulous about proving things. I had an old military book on experiments with the 303 cartridge. They thought that when the primer went off, pressure was so violent that the jacketed military bullet expanded to fit the barrel. To prove it they cut the barrel of a rifle off so short, that with the cartridge loaded in the chamber, the front part of the bullet stuck out of the cut off barrel. When they measured the fired bullet, they discovered the front portion that stuck out was indeed, of larger diameter than it originally was.
Does this sound like the bullet would stop when it hit the resistance of the lands?
 
Well said Bruce. New reloaders shouldn't be confused with too much data. When I started reloading, I couldn't believe the info one needed to retain. My suggestion is to read lots and forget about the scientific end of things. Maybe have a factory loaded cartridge around and use the o.a.l. (over all length) dimension from this. I tried that case formed and shoulder length way of reloading and when on a moose hunt up north, moose there waiting and I couldn't close the bolt. Some how a bit of mud managed to find it's way into the chamber in the case neck area. No more fire formed neck crimp for me. I load to factory case length dimesions. No more of that fancy schamzy stuff. That day eye was glad it was a moose, not a grizzly looking at me. Try and keep it simple until you get comfortable with this reloading. I am sure I will get scoffed at, but this is what works for me. Oh, and unplug the phone and turn off the tv...radio when you reload. This task takes your undivided attention. My hunting reloads all get the utmost care. I measure each case and weigh each powder charge. If my scale says I am slightly over, I use tweezers to pull the couple kernels of powder off the pan until it is right . On my magnum, I chamber each reload after that mud experience. I do not wish to relive that. There are lots of books out there and you will find that the same charges will produce different results with different authors. Find a reloading manual you are comfortable reading and understand. I have a half a dozen and only use one. It just seems easier for me to follow. I do cross check some loads for my own curiosity. Some will give you the info you are looking for on a specific caliber. Have fun with it. If you run into problems, this site is the ideal place to find your answers. Regards.
 
Look up BLC for a reloading powder for your .223
What game are you going to shoot?
By a few boxes of bullets in various makes and uses .
You might even ask any of the reloaders if they have part boxes of bullet tips they are not using as they may work for you and would be less expensive than buying the most expensive tips and finding out they do not work well for you.
Just food for though is all.
Rob
 
Thanks

A big thanks to all the replies I have gotten. There sure is a lot of knowledge out there. I have manuals that I am reading and I am glued to the internet for info. I think it all gets me more confused because there are so many varied opinions.
One thing I would like to now is, if I cant find my particular bullet can I use something in the same weight?
I have purchased some cheap Hornady 55g FMJBT for paper punching and learning experience, but cant seem to locate a load with my powders for that bullet.I will use a bullet that I have the info for next time. I guess I can chalk it up to the learning curve.
Thanks again and I will probably be back to pick your brains.........LOL
 
One thing I would like to now is, if I cant find my particular bullet can I use something in the same weight?

Yes, you can use data for any lead bullet of the same weight. In fact I like to reference 2 or 3 sources for a bullet weight before loading. Solid copper bullets tend to have different data.

FWIW, hardly any factory ammo is crimped these days.
 
If your rifle has a magazine, try seating a bullet so it is a bit shorter than the mag and then chamber it to see if the rifling leaves marks. If it does not, that is your max length, if you intend to use the mag.

I load 223 for bolt rifles and for my AR semi. I never crimp.

4320 is a good powder. it measures well and will work even better with heavier bullets. Try some 68 or 69 gr match bullets, then some 75 or 77 grain hollow point bullets, when you are looking for more accuracy than the 55 FMJ.

If you see a load for a bullet of similar weight, you can use that (except the solid copper bullets. They are different.)

Each rifle is different. Start mild and try .5 gr increments, looking for the most accurate or a sign of pressure. Be prepared to bring the hot loads home, to be pulled.


Enjoy loading. Lots of fun and lots of help here if you continue to ask questions.
 
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