RRA LAR15 10 Round Reliability and General Issues

In general, it is bad ju ju to load any Hollow Point under 50gr into your AR - these are varmint ammunition manufactured for bolt guns mainly - most of them do not have enough neck tension to retain the bullet when it gets fed by a semi automatic. Same for AE 52gr HP. The feed ramp and spring rate of the magazine are not designed for these bullets.

Also note that your Norinco doesn't have extended feedramps like the real M4 does ( not sure about the current batch, but the last batch does not have extended feed ramp) This made the feeding even worst.

You should stick with 55gr FMJ for the cheapest ammunition.
 
Lotsa folks seem to have trouble feeding the Win 45 gr JHP ammo, especially without the M4 style feed ramps. Better off steering clear.
 
Contacted RRA directly. They said they can't send the magazines for replacement acroos the border. Then I asked if he would send a follower and spring to test out again with the border. I replied to him I live in a border town and know for a fact gun parts come across this border (Peace Bridge) with little to no problem. I have bought parts from american companies under 100 dollars with no problem (brownells). I don't see how him sending 5 dollars worth of plastic and steel would have been a big deal but oh well.

Another option to see if they are just being jerks is I will offer them an american address as I have friends that live right across the border to which they could send the part and see what they say. Too bad they have to be knobs.

mysticplayer said:
Have you considered contacting the dealer that sold you the mags and getting them replaced?

From my playing with semi autos of all kinds, the main area for functioning problems are the mags. If the mags aren't right, reliability stinks.

My experience with these 10 rds mags has been positive and those shooting these in my area also have had good luck.

Now if there was a 'bad' batch that got out, you will be fighting them forever.

Try using a pmag or Brownells mag or something else just to confirm that the rifle is not the problem. Try another LAR mag that is working in another AR and see.

You shouldn't have to fight your mags to get them to work.

Jerry
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Actually the ammo I had that went through perfect was American Eagle 55gr FMJ. So you think the jacketed hollowpoints are what are doing it? That actually makes perfect sense. I will buy FMJ's from now on if this solves the problem. That you very much.

greentips said:
In general, it is bad ju ju to load any Hollow Point under 50gr into your AR - these are varmint ammunition manufactured for bolt guns mainly - most of them do not have enough neck tension to retain the bullet when it gets fed by a semi automatic. Same for AE 52gr HP. The feed ramp and spring rate of the magazine are not designed for these bullets.

Also note that your Norinco doesn't have extended feedramps like the real M4 does ( not sure about the current batch, but the last batch does not have extended feed ramp) This made the feeding even worst.

You should stick with 55gr FMJ for the cheapest ammunition.
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I notice that all of mine have follower spring tension unlike any other magazine, very stiff, to the point that removing the last couple of rounds from a magazine by hand is very hard on the fingers. Yet, they perform flawlessly in my mongrel of an AR rifle.
 
BigGameHunter said:
Contacted RRA directly. They said they can't send the magazines for replacement acroos the border. Then I asked if he would send a follower and spring to test out again with the border. I replied to him I live in a border town and know for a fact gun parts come across this border (Peace Bridge) with little to no problem. I have bought parts from american companies under 100 dollars with no problem (brownells). I don't see how him sending 5 dollars worth of plastic and steel would have been a big deal but oh well.

Another option to see if they are just being jerks is I will offer them an american address as I have friends that live right across the border to which they could send the part and see what they say. Too bad they have to be knobs.
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Not sure why you would contact RRA since those magazines have absolutely nothing to do with RRA other than the fact we manufacture them for "use" in RRA AR Pistols and mark (engrave) them as such.

The magazines are NOT made by Rock River Arms nor are they sold by or available through Rock River Arms. They are manufactured specifically for Questar by CProducts, LLC... and they are warrantied through us by CProducts, which is why I asked you where you bought them.

The new ones you purchased through a dealer should have gone back to the dealer you bought them from, or you can send them back to us along with a copy of the original purchase invoice. But I should also point out that warranty applies to products that have not been modified or changes in any way so if you've done things to the magazines, followers or springs as you were indicating in previous posts then you may well have voided any warranty that would apply (this is pretty much true for any product out there).

I would also point out that we haven't made or imported "grey" body versions in a LONG time so not sure where they (you said you had 2 grey ones) came from or when but those are probably not 'new' magazines... of course without seeing them we really can't tell much... just make guesses.

If you had access to someone who has an AR and who has LAR-15 magazines (that work) you might try your mags in his gun and his mags in your gun... this would quickly determine if the problem is the magazines or the gun.

Lastly... your comment that RRA are being "knobs" because they won't ship parts to you in Canada is more than a bit misplaced... let me point out (again) that they never made the items your asking them to replace and more important, RRA doesn't export ANYTHING to Canada so they are not legally allowed to export a one cent part without breaking US Federal laws. The Rock River Arms rifles and parts sold in Canada are exported by Questar and distributed by us... not by RRA.

Mark
 
John in B.C. said:
Mark,
Curious how the latest generation run under a closed bolt so as to achieve 10+1 capacity?

John
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They are a 10 round magazine... they typically won't lock-in when bolt is closed. If you've ever used 30 round magazines they you will know that 30 round magazines don't typically lock in and work with a closed bolt either... that's why most people load them with 29 or 28 rounds.

You can modify the magazine (follower legs) and normally get the magazine to have enough play that it will lock in place when the bolt is closed... but... it's a very touchy thing since if you give it too much play then you can squeeze an 11th round into the magazine and if that happens you've now created a Prohibited Device and you are potentially in a lot of trouble when caught.

Mark
 
Questar said:
They are a 10 round magazine... they typically won't lock-in when bolt is closed. If you've ever used 30 round magazines they you will know that 30 round magazines don't typically lock in and work with a closed bolt either... that's why most people load them with 29 or 28 rounds.

You can modify the magazine (follower legs) and normally get the magazine to have enough play that it will lock in place when the bolt is closed... but... it's a very touchy thing since if you give it too much play then you can squeeze an 11th round into the magazine and if that happens you've now created a Prohibited Device and you are potentially in a lot of trouble when caught.

Mark
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Valid point, but if they were initially designed, or pinned correctly, like maybe to 10.5 rounds, neither legality nor function would be an issue.

I had some 9mm CProd. AR mags that would not drop free from my RRA block, but fed reliably. No experience with the 223s.
 
Well when something says on it RRA and not Questar on it, you tell me who you would contact given what I know.

The Grey ones were purchased off here from someone who sold them to me as pretty much new meaning he loaded and unloaded them, maybe put a few rounds down them but they were in as good of shape as the new ones. The other 2 black ones were from a sponsor of this site. Not you. The "modification" as you call it was simply removing a burr that was crappy craftmans**t, if that is modification that voids the warranty than maybe companies shouldn't stand behind there products if they are just going to pass crap onto there clients.

I shouldn't have to be criticized for doing so and as a consumer I should have rights to a quality product. Sorry if the word "knob" offended you but I was unaware that you were the be all and end all of these magazines. That is what I mean.

So if you are the one who wants to tell me what to do why don't you send me some new followers (I will send you my address in PM) even one and see if that is the problem. Even if you take the two older mags out of the equation one of my new ones has had 10 rounds exactly (one loading) through them and one is unfired but wouldn't even allow ammo to smoothly be loaded into it without slightly fixing it. I don't see why I am being chastised for purchasing an inferior product. Don't get me wrong the 10 rounders are great but its unfair that I go to try and have a few of them on hand and then in case I ever want to actually go shooting I have to worry about them jamming the crap out of my gun.

So maybe before you jump to conclusions be a little more understanding unless these are just meant to be a souvenir of a fault in the Canadian Firearms Act.


EDIT: I did send an apology to RRA for giving them a hard time about something I didn't think was possible. But I still think you are in the wrong for throwing hot water at me. I don't mean for this thread to be a fight I am just looking for a solution and want to be able to enjoy my rifle like everyone else. I am not a hard person to get along with but I do get defensive easily. So if there is a way to not bicker and find a solution I am all for I. Well I am off to work, hopefully this doesn't turn into a disaster by the time I get back. Take Care.


Questar said:
Not sure why you would contact RRA since those magazines have absolutely nothing to do with RRA other than the fact we manufacture them for "use" in RRA AR Pistols and mark (engrave) them as such.

The magazines are NOT made by Rock River Arms nor are they sold by or available through Rock River Arms. They are manufactured specifically for Questar by CProducts, LLC... and they are warrantied through us by CProducts, which is why I asked you where you bought them.

The new ones you purchased through a dealer should have gone back to the dealer you bought them from, or you can send them back to us along with a copy of the original purchase invoice. But I should also point out that warranty applies to products that have not been modified or changes in any way so if you've done things to the magazines, followers or springs as you were indicating in previous posts then you may well have voided any warranty that would apply (this is pretty much true for any product out there).

I would also point out that we haven't made or imported "grey" body versions in a LONG time so not sure where they (you said you had 2 grey ones) came from or when but those are probably not 'new' magazines... of course without seeing them we really can't tell much... just make guesses.

If you had access to someone who has an AR and who has LAR-15 magazines (that work) you might try your mags in his gun and his mags in your gun... this would quickly determine if the problem is the magazines or the gun.

Lastly... your comment that RRA are being "knobs" because they won't ship parts to you in Canada is more than a bit misplaced... let me point out (again) that they never made the items your asking them to replace and more important, RRA doesn't export ANYTHING to Canada so they are not legally allowed to export a one cent part without breaking US Federal laws. The Rock River Arms rifles and parts sold in Canada are exported by Questar and distributed by us... not by RRA.

Mark
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Questar said:
They are a 10 round magazine... they typically won't lock-in when bolt is closed. If you've ever used 30 round magazines they you will know that 30 round magazines don't typically lock in and work with a closed bolt either... that's why most people load them with 29 or 28 rounds.

You can modify the magazine (follower legs) and normally get the magazine to have enough play that it will lock in place when the bolt is closed... but... it's a very touchy thing since if you give it too much play then you can squeeze an 11th round into the magazine and if that happens you've now created a Prohibited Device and you are potentially in a lot of trouble when caught.

Mark
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The mags will lock in but will not feed.

They feed perfectly from an open bolt but if I try to load 10+1 they will not feed the second round.

John
 
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John in B.C. said:
The mags will lock in but will not feed.

They feed perfectly from and open bolt but if I try to load 10+1 they will not feed the second round.

John
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It isn't that they won't "feed" it's that the full ten round magazine puts too much pressure on the underside of the bolt carrier during the ejection cycle and the bolt carrier is slowed and does not move rearward all the way... it probably comes back far enough to eject the spent cartridge but not far enough to get behind the next round in the mag and without enough force to pick it up properly and chamber it fully. In effect the pressure on the underside of the bolt carrier can cause the rifle to short cycle if you load a full 10 rounds in on a closed bolt.

As I said before, many people modify the follower to give more room for the rounds (more play so that less resistance is put on the bottom of the bolt carrier... but many times these modifications end up in ruining the magazine because they put too much play in and the magazine will accept an 11th round.

The magazine body is a set size... over time the lips can move and (on magazines that are border line) this can cause the magazine to take an 11th round.

The magazine followers are plastic and unfortunately the tolerances on those pieces is not as consistent as people would like... especially from batch to batch... so one batch of magazines may give a bit more "play" than the next. There is just too much variance for us to try to make a magazine that works consistently on a closed bolt... the result would be too many that end up as prohibited devices and we're just not prepared to take that risk.

Mark
 
I have 5 of these and they work great, but I did trim about an 1/8" of a inch off the bottom of the followers. It allowed for more consistant seating in the gun and gave just enough "wiggle" room for flawless functioning with 10 rounds loaded.
 
Just a quick question, are you running your AR well lubed? Great guns, but they run best when wet. I've used Hoppes oil, CLP, Rem Oil, all good, just keep it wet and it's happy shooting all day long. Kinda like good ###!



BigGameHunter said:
LOL that is actually what I ended up doing last night. Hopefully I can get a few others to ring in on other tips as everyone elses seem to run perfectly.

Update: Still 5 as max amount. Any more and its hit and miss. If I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any. I am starting to think that mini 14 is a far superior weapon if not just for the reliability factor alone as I can't be the only one with several s**tty mags or a problem with the gun. I just put the mini comment in to see if people will start to give me proper solutions instead of just bragging about there mags. I don't see what else can be much different. Cheap stamped aluminum frame, cheap spring, teflon (self lubing, anti tilt bs) follower that tilts and causes nose dives. Sorry for the venting but please someone give me a good answer for a change. I know its not a 2000 dollar AR but its not that bad either. Thanks for any good responses.
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peacefrog said:
Just a quick question, are you running your AR well lubed? Great guns, but they run best when wet. I've used Hoppes oil, CLP, Rem Oil, all good, just keep it wet and it's happy shooting all day long. Kinda like good ###!
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MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm.......lube........................I feel funny in my bum................. gotta go........
 
I have ran it with silicon lube, lawsons, motor oil, gun oil and a few others. Lawsons Protecting Agent is what I am using now as it is the smoothest but yeah I run it well lubed. Not to the point where it slows it down but its well lubed even though the more lube you use the messier and dirtier it gets I still read that and do that.

I honestly think its the JHP that I was using were hitting and instead of just forcing into the chamber they were splitting on the end and nose diving. But I will buy another box of FMJ and see if that is the case if not then its the magazines. Thanks for the positive replies.
 
Sounds like you're on the way to resolution. I've never shot anything but FMJ ammo in my guns. Both my AR's work flawlessly with 55 gr. Ammerican Eagle, 62 gr Winchester, Sellier and Bellot 55's, Military surplus, etc. Never had a problem with the 10 rd mags or 5/30 PMags. Sounds like you're right in that the ammo may have been to short and soft at the point giving you the jam. Try the American Eagle, it's inexpensive, very high quality, and plentiful now.

Good Shooting. Peacefrog.

BigGameHunter said:
I have ran it with silicon lube, lawsons, motor oil, gun oil and a few others. Lawsons Protecting Agent is what I am using now as it is the smoothest but yeah I run it well lubed. Not to the point where it slows it down but its well lubed even though the more lube you use the messier and dirtier it gets I still read that and do that.

I honestly think its the JHP that I was using were hitting and instead of just forcing into the chamber they were splitting on the end and nose diving. But I will buy another box of FMJ and see if that is the case if not then its the magazines. Thanks for the positive replies.
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Its was definately the ammo. FMJ all the way from now on. I will save any JHP for the Mini14 as it likes them. It only jammed a couple times when the mags were full (10 rounds) but I think that is due to the mags or me hesitating when racking the slide as it was just a couple minor times and when they would do that if I pulled it back again and gave it a rack they slide right into the chamber. When I give it a good rack and let it fly no problems so far. Can't wait to take it back to the range. Thanks for the help.

peacefrog said:
Sounds like you're on the way to resolution. I've never shot anything but FMJ ammo in my guns. Both my AR's work flawlessly with 55 gr. Ammerican Eagle, 62 gr Winchester, Sellier and Bellot 55's, Military surplus, etc. Never had a problem with the 10 rd mags or 5/30 PMags. Sounds like you're right in that the ammo may have been to short and soft at the point giving you the jam. Try the American Eagle, it's inexpensive, very high quality, and plentiful now.

Good Shooting. Peacefrog.
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