The Great Purchasing Debate

[MrMarksman]

Hi Guys,

My PAL is shipped out and I'm currently doing research on what gun(s) to get.

They'll be ATM all for the shooting range so I was looking into Non-Restricted black rifles.

Came across the Robarms XCR .223, TAR-21 and, HK SL8. These guns are B-E-A-utiful but pricey.

Mean while I also saw the Ruger SR-22 and CZ 858. Not as pretty but they are relatively inexpensive.

I needed help on deciding if they are worth the money or should I stick to the simple ones. Now before you jump the gun and say it's opinion, I'm asking for help on the technical side to I can formulate an opinion.

Being the noob that I am, I have no idea what the differences are other than caliber, bullet type/price and purchasing price.

Any help distinguishing the pros and cons would be greatly appreciated.

 

[scianna54]

Start cheap and stay with one or 2 guns for a while. SR22 is .22 rimfire, if you put $3,000 or more into a gun, you are more or less committed. Find out what kind of shooting you like. CZ 858 can be modified to look very cool, check out the picture gallery.

 

[arcstarter]

I agree, you should start off with something like a Ruger 10/22 to get into the hang of it and to see if you enjoy it.

 

[evolture]

um buy a cheaper gun to start. if you f it up some how (scratch/break/dent/bend) it won't matter so much.

 

[The Sand Man]

You want something cheap, with inexpensive ammunition, and a black look?

Simple, get a Russian SKS and add a Tapco stock. For about $600, you'll be set with a black SKS, and 1120 rounds. None of the rifles you named will compare in fun vs. cost. 7.62 x 39 is much more fun than rimfire, without the cost of .223.

Spending $3500 on your first rifle, without ammunition or anything is a bad idea. I strongly suggest starting low and working your way up!

Cheers,
Sand

 

[Shalimar]

You want something cheap, with inexpensive ammunition, and a black look?

Simple, get a Russian SKS and add a Tapco stock. For about $600, you'll be set with a black SKS, and 1120 rounds. None of the rifles you named will compare in fun vs. cost. 7.62 x 39 is much more fun than rimfire, without the cost of .223.

Spending $3500 on your first rifle, without ammunition or anything is a bad idea. I strongly suggest starting low and working your way up!

Cheers,
Sand

Got a link for this and cost? A friend was over.. saw this and had to ask of course lol

 

[MrMarksman]

Simple, get a Russian SKS and add a Tapco stock. For about $600, you'll be set with a black SKS, and 1120 rounds.

Can you link me to this 600$ worth of stuff because I'm not getting it.

~200$ for the SKS, ~150$ for the stock but bullets are 400$ for 500 rounds.

Unless I buy corrosive surplus round which I've been informed is a royal PITA.

Somebody also mentioned the Ruger Mini-14 as an alternative and I'm looking into it now.

 

[unstableryan]

There's nothing scary about the corrosive ammo, you just clean your gun after, some people spray it out with windex, rinse that out and oil and it's good.

I use boiling water, works great and the SKS isn't very hard to take apart. You might even enjoy it being new to guns.

I have to say the 10/22 is a lot of fun. My buddy has the same setup as me so we can compete against each other and it's a at least 500 rounds every time we go play.

The sks is fun too but the 5 round limit is a bummer. A couple hundred rounds fairly fast is fun though, warm that gun up a little..

It's hard to beat a pump 12 gauge for cheap fun too, but it's not as much fun at the range. It's way more fun going out somewhere safe.

Have fun..

 

[scianna54]

Can you link me to this 600$ worth of stuff because I'm not getting it.

~200$ for the SKS, ~150$ for the stock but bullets are 400$ for 500 rounds.

Unless I buy corrosive surplus round which I've been informed is a royal PITA.

Somebody also mentioned the Ruger Mini-14 as an alternative and I'm looking into it now.

Everybody is shooting corrosive ammo, so what does your expert adviser say exactly?

The SKS in the pic is not $200, it probably is $600.

I am getting the idea that you are troll.


Troll away or read up if you are not, no need to do a trolly thread..

I am out.



.

 

[The Sand Man]

Can you link me to this 600$ worth of stuff because I'm not getting it.

~200$ for the SKS, ~150$ for the stock but bullets are 400$ for 500 rounds.

Unless I buy corrosive surplus round which I've been informed is a royal PITA.

Somebody also mentioned the Ruger Mini-14 as an alternative and I'm looking into it now.

Firstly, bullets is the term used for the projectile fired from a gun. If you mean the brass, powder, primer and bullet all together, the term given is cartridge.

Secondly, you could get an SKS for $200 used, or $300 new. The stock is another $150, but you'd be surprised to find out that the wood or laminate stock just might suite your tastes. Just because you like the look of a black gun doesn't mean you'll want a Tapco stock after owning and firing your SKS.

Thirdly.....nobody uses new manufacture cartridges for their 7.62 x 39 caliber firearms. It's like saying: "I just got a well used '88 civic, but I'll use nothing but 94 octane". Think about it, Russian guns are built ultra durable and reliable, why baby a $200 gun? Just have fun with it, clean it after each use, no big deal.

If you read through the "Guns I regret buying thread", you'll find plenty of dissatisfied Mini-14 owners.

Why get something that is more expensive, which only mimics something that is substantially more popular, and reliable.

Get a Russian SKS or a Ruger 10/22, you won't regret it.

Cheers,
Sand

 

[MrMarksman]

Everybody is shooting corrosive ammo, so what does your expert adviser say exactly?

The SKS in the pic is not $200, it probably is $600.

I am getting the idea that you are troll.


Troll away or read up if you are not, no need to do a trolly thread..

I am out.



.

My "expert" which I never called him that told me that if I decide to pull out the gun and go plinking and just shoot 20-50 odd bullets i'm going to have to take apart the gun and clean it. While it is good habit to do it every time, you could get away here and there not doing it with manufactured ammo.


By no means am I a troll, just a noob. I probably did the same thing as a car noob going into a car forum and stating VTEC is the best thing ever. What I read was.

For about $600, you'll be set with a black SKS, and 1120 rounds.

That to me means I can get all that for 600$ bullets and all.

Firstly, bullets is the term used for the projectile fired from a gun. If you mean the brass, powder, primer and bullet all together, the term given is cartridge.

Secondly, you could get an SKS for $200 used, or $300 new. The stock is another $150, but you'd be surprised to find out that the wood or laminate stock just might suite your tastes. Just because you like the look of a black gun doesn't mean you'll want a Tapco stock after owning and firing your SKS.

Thirdly.....nobody uses new manufacture cartridges for their 7.62 x 39 caliber firearms. It's like saying: "I just got a well used '88 civic, but I'll use nothing but 94 octane". Think about it, Russian guns are built ultra durable and reliable, why baby a $200 gun? Just have fun with it, clean it after each use, no big deal.

If you read through the "Guns I regret buying thread", you'll find plenty of dissatisfied Mini-14 owners.

Why get something that is more expensive, which only mimics something that is substantially more popular, and reliable.

Get a Russian SKS or a Ruger 10/22, you won't regret it.

Cheers,
Sand

1) Good to know, thanks.

2) Found that out fine, the problem was the ammunition. While I do like the look of a black gun, the most important thing is how i feel holding it and at the moment the pistol grip on most black guns just feel right to hold.

3) Like I mentioned above, might not want to go thru the whole show and dance of cleaning if i'm firing less than 50 rounds. Then again I could buy the non corrosive for those occasions.

And I've been reading on the Ruger 14 and the impression I got was old models were notoriously bad with accuracy but the newer models have been greatly improved. I've read thru the thread you gave me and it seems like all the complaining came from the old models.

Again, i'm no expert, i'm just trying to learn the ropes, working with things I read and hear. In the end I'll probably pick up any gun and think it's the #### because i'll have nothing really to base it on.

 

[bigdaddyeo]

Depending on where you are you can pick up an SKS with a 1120 crate of surplus ammo for $350.00. That's the deal I got mine with. Then I ordered a ATI folding stock, scope and bipod, and a 5/20 magazine and it's as fun and scary looking as any other black rifle. Total cost is around 550-600 and ammo is dirt cheap. Being corrosive doesn't mean you shoot it 30-50 times and it starts destroying your barrel... but if you shoot it and put it away in a damp storage without cleaning it then you might experience some pitting etc.
You clean it like all other guns after a day of shooting except you add one more step...

 

[The Sand Man]

By no means am I a troll, just a noob. I probably did the same thing as a car noob going into a car forum and stating VTEC is the best thing ever.

Please...., just because you are a noob doesn't mean you can't be a troll.

We are currently finely grating the rotten pulpy remains of a terribly beaten horse.........

If you really think that the thread you started is the first of its kind, then you are sadly mistaken.

That to me means I can get all that for 600$ bullets and all.

I can't even begin to imagine why you are complaining about the price of an SKS. You started your thread about buying $5000 worth of black rifle gear....

2) Found that out fine, the problem was the ammunition. While I do like the look of a black gun, the most important thing is how i feel holding it and at the moment the pistol grip on most black guns just feel right to hold.

You'll either need to get an aftermarket stock for that Mini-14 of yours, no different than the SKS; or, you'll have to get the Mini 14 with the ATI stock, which is just under $1000.

3) Like I mentioned above, might not want to go thru the whole show and dance of cleaning if i'm firing less than 50 rounds. Then again I could buy the non corrosive for those occasions.

You just answered your own question.

And I've been reading on the Ruger 14 and the impression I got was old models were notoriously bad with accuracy but the newer models have been greatly improved. I've read thru the thread you gave me and it seems like all the complaining came from the old models.

Again, i'm no expert, i'm just trying to learn the ropes, working with things I read and hear. In the end I'll probably pick up any gun and think it's the s**t because i'll have nothing really to base it on.

Buddy, you can drink whatever Coolade you want, it'll taste exactly what you want it to. Regardless, you have been given good advice, and you choose to ignore it; instead, going in a silly direction. I guarantee, by the time you get your PAL, you wouldn't even want a Mini-14. This is going to be your first rifle, why get something expensive and unnecessary?

Now go back to your MW2, I think your friend are online.

Meanwhile I will attempt to resurrect any hope for this thread:

[youtube]u8X76NRiQLQ[/youtube]
[youtube]s7gxXHfeAho[/youtube]
[youtube]e65Ssft6spg[/youtube]

Cheers,
Sand

 

[Steppenwolf]

Everyone relax FFS, MrMarksman you can't go wrong on an SKS. Best bang for the buck, I bet you just can't have only one Check out the dealers, in the header, they support CGN and offer good deals.

 

[MrMarksman]

To sum up go to minute 45:00

[youtube]ycagSJTvaJs[/youtube]

He claims value at 630$ USD, but at 1000$ CAD it's not all that crazy expensive, especially considering it a review from the states and they sell on the home market much cheaper than abroad.

BTW, I edited out my responses so that it doesn't continue the bickering, I leave you only with somebody else opinion on the matter.

 

[Greenbasterd58]

does that stock allow the use of original sights? or are you stuck with a a schope or mounted?

 

[MrMarksman]

does that stock allow the use of original sights? or are you stuck with a a schope or mounted?

I believe it does, not 100% sure though.

If you want they make a factory model with an ATI stock. Some people hate it, others like it, again it's opinion.

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RifleATIStock/models.html

Personally I dropped the the tactical for the target. It's a bit heavier and requires a scope (no irons) but the Harmonic Dampener gives easily less that MOA if tuned properly.

[youtube]z89nJ5zA4bI[/youtube]

 

[scianna54]

I believe it does, not 100% sure though.

If you want they make a factory model with an ATI stock. Some people hate it, others like it, again it's opinion.

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RifleATIStock/models.html

Personally I dropped the the tactical for the target. It's a bit heavier and requires a scope (no irons) but the Harmonic Dampener gives easily less that MOA if tuned properly.

[youtube]z89nJ5zA4bI[/youtube]

The target model is fine but it's not only a bit heavier, it is a lot heavier. For that money, caliber and application, you can get many much cheaper bolt operated rifles. My Norinco J-105 for example will shoot out the Mini 14 target all day long. I had both and sold the target.

I have Mini 14's mostly for collections, not for shooting, you have to spend some money if you want to get it fine tuned (not talking about the dampener), .223 ammo is also quite a bit more than surplus.

 

[Sardaukar]

Come on guys, why do you even come to the newbie forum if you don't want to hear about a new guy not sure about an SKS. Of course you're right, but chill the f out, jeez.

OP: You don't have to clean it right away and disassemble it completely every time you fire a few corrosive. It can wait a few days. Basic cleaning can be as simple as spraying some windex in the bore, and flushing it out with a liter or two of boiling water. And if you somehow screw it up, you can buy 3 more SKS for the price of a mini-14. The Tapco stock won't rust.

Believe me, you will get to hate spending 1$ a pop much faster than you can ever hate cleaning a rifle. The number is real: 600$ will get you the rifle, the stock and 1120 rounds of plinking fun.

 

[Dave_Shotgun]

Just make sure that you're range allows you to shoot rifles and is not just a pistol range.