Norinco Steel in the 1911's

BP7 said:
a bench grinder, a file, and wet 600 grit sandpaper will all have their own effect on the surface of the Norc frame. a bench grinder had no problems taking the new Norc Commander's square trigger guard and making it round.

i think my Merlin II engine block is made of stronger stuff than that...
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I would be concerned if files and grinders didn't cut the steel well...that would mean it had been hardened into the 60 range of the rockwell scale.

That would sure make for a nice grenade in your hand...

Your engine block is made of cast iron, so again not surprising if the machining characteristics are fairly different. Cast iron is typically harder but also much more brittle. If you took a chunk of it the size of a pistol frame and hit it with a hammer you'd shatter it.
 
misanthropist said:
I would be concerned if files and grinders didn't cut the steel well...that would mean it had been hardened into the 60 range of the rockwell scale.

That would sure make for a nice grenade in your hand...

Your engine block is made of cast iron, so again not surprising if the machining characteristics are fairly different. Cast iron is typically harder but also much more brittle. If you took a chunk of it the size of a pistol frame and hit it with a hammer you'd shatter it.
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maybe, but maybe not. gray cast iron (good ol' engine blocks) does have the ability to absorb shock and vibration as well - after all, it gets pounded silly a few hundred to a few thousand times a minute, day in day out. it's also much thicker and probably more porous than drop-forged steel.

pretty sure that the frame in a 1911 doesn't that much abuse anyways - most of the left-over BANG energy is cushioned / "spread out" by the spring and i guess that the biggest impact force would be the barrel-slide locks and barrel-frame link.
 
Actually, grey cast iron performs substantially worse against both shock and vibration than most steels. As you point out, though, the large size of engine blocks makes it possible to use what would otherwise be an inappropriate material.

Early 1911 frames were only spot-heat treated and were subject to cracking. Having a super-high-performance steel for the frame isn't necessarily critical but it's definitely optimal.
 
Mine's certainly holding up well, not showing any real wear at all. Just a note - the original text that the OP is quoting is our very own Claven - some pretty smart guys on here - given that we're a bunch of "gun toting rednecks" :D
 
It finally came(never fast enough when your waiting for the mail to come) and I don't see what all of the issues I heard of with a Norc is all about. It's finish is a good as any Walther or HK I've had. The trigger is, if anything, somewhat better. A crisp, short trigger pull break guaged at 4 and a half lbs with nothing but a cleaning and literally 30 seconds with a stone to take the unfinished edges of the trigger before I put it back together. But with all the features that are extra on most any other 1911 (chome barrel, extended mag/safety/slide releases, 3-dot combat sights, case) its hard to understand the animosity.

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It goes to the range tomorrow and its just a premonition but I think the mags are s**te. But for $350 cdn all it I have zero complaints. Even the wife was po'd I'd bought one until she heard what it cost. I had to show her so she'd believe me(she knows damn well what I've historically dropped on a new toy).

I might just take a stab at the Sig 228 copy based on this experience. It'd be good to know if all of the Norc pistols are this quality.
 
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incorrigible said:
I finally came(never fast enough when your waiting for the mail to come) and I don't see what all of the issues I heard of with a Norc is all about. It's finish is a good as any Walther or HK I've had. The trigger is, if anything, somewhat better. Crisp short break at 4 and a half lbs with nothing but a cleaning and literally 30 seconds with a stone to take the unfinished edges of the trigger before I put it back together. But with all the features that are extra on most any other 1911 (chome barrel, extended mag/safety/slide releases, 3-dot combat sights, case) its hard to understand the animosity.

It goes to the range tomorrow and its just a premonition but I think the mags are s**te. But for $350 cdn all it I have zero complaints.
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The wait sucked for me as well! The finish on my sport seems pretty good, and the trigger is great. I love the extended mag release but the extended ambi safety I dont care for since it never gets used. The extended mag release screws out, so you need to loc-tite it in or might fall out while shooting. The mags are just fine had no issues yet. The squared trigger guard is wierd, mine has a rounded one.

Shoot factory ammo through it first to break it in. The chamber in mine was tight and the wolf factory reloads I had were constantly jamming, but the factory stuff was flawless (now after ~300 rounds, the wolf ammo jams considerable less). Its really accurate too!
 
Greenhorse six said:
How hard is it to round off the trigger guard? thats the only thing stopping me from getting one, I can even live with the front serration on the slide but that squair trigger guard , oh, man what were they thinking?
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very easy on a bench grinder if you have a good touch to properly round it so that it's not a flat round but a curved round (if you know what i mean). that was the first thing i did on mine.
 
The square trigger guard idea is not new.
There was a time when custom Pistolsmiths in the USA and Canada, made a fair bit of coin from folks who wanted a square trigger guard on their 1911's.
Preferably checkered.
These folks were of the opinion that the square, checkered guard. Might be a good place to place the index finger of the supporting hand.

I do not utilize that technique.
Although, I kinda like the nostalgic feel.
I'm leaving mine as-is.:)

2 cents.
 
my main reason for rounding it is that some holsters aren't made for the square guard shape so the gun won't fit, whereas the rounded profile will fit them all. secondary was looks.
 
ajayofcanada said:
Because of the Geneva Convention, the military can only use FMJ roundnose in their 1911's. With the expansion of a hollow point it would be a different story,I knew a guy, who knew a guy, who said that he once saw a dude get hit with a 45 hydrashok, the guy actually went airborne for 20 feet due to the MASSIVE amount of energy expended in him, he lucked out though, as most people explode when hit by one. Thus, they were banned for use in warfare.
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In true Hollywood fashion. ;)

That 45 must have snapped the shooters wrist before becoming airborn itself and flying into spaces unknown. :D
 
What about the steel used for other models of Norinco like the NP series (18, 22, 34) and the NZ? If the steel as as good/better than Sig, CZ and the workmanship is good, I'm ready to try one!

BTW, I've spent a lot of time in China and can tell you that if you insist on quality, you can get some great products at great prices. My "Tag Heuer Carrera" automatic chronograph watch (NOT!) cost 5x what the cheap "knock offs" cost but is now over 5 years old, keeps perfect time and has never been cleaned.
 
incorrigible
BTW, thanks for a well researched, amazing post. I was originally trained as a Chem Eng so I appreciate what you're talking about. I never would have considered a Norinco until I read your post. After reading it I'd certainly think about one for an "everday" firearm, though I don't think they'll ever make my "collectables" list!
 
Wow! I assume "made in china" and "wallmart products" and it kinda scared me! Are these 1911's straight out of the box? or are they gome over by a gunsmith before delivery? (Gunnar at Armco) How are they for accuracy? Just curious because I am kind of a purist and love the old colts.
 
So when out the range went the Commander today and there were zero issues. It ate JHP, SWC and and FMJ with no issues. There were those around , notably a CZ, 2 Colts, a Springfield and Glock, with either FTF and FTE issues but not a problem I had to be concerned with.

I just might have to dig through the couch for some change and get one in .40 as well...
 
Getting back to the topic... if you want more opinions on Norinco steel check out the threads on the Main Battle Rifles forum - see the thread 'Steel Quality in Norinco M14S Recievers', there is more info in the thread there. Guys are using Norc M14 receivers for their custom builds.

To quote exseparatist: "Two decades or so ago, when Americans were allowed importing the Norinco 1911, the famous gunsmith King Works customized a lot of them. Someone who collects the ''Guns and Ammos'' magazines from the 80's and 90's (in the toillet room ?) can easily find out many articles on the King's 1911 Norincos. I dont think that King customized and stamped his name on a low quality guns."
 
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Yeah, think of the millions more Norc 1911's that would've been sold in the USA if they didn't have the trade embargo against them....:eek:

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NAA.
 
Don't buy one! :eek:

Buy TWO of them! I did and I was up to FOUR at one time! :D

My sons grew up shooting 9mm, 45 ACP, and .22LR with a Kimber conversion kit over the past 10 years with my collection(s) of Norc 1911 pistols. Life is good!

Cheers,
Barney
 
Both my stock Norinco 1911s are up around the 5000 round mark each with no visible signs of excessive wear on the slide, the frame or any other part for that matter. Perhaps not a large enough round count to benchmark against, but, by my standards, not insignificant either as a gauge of intial construction quality. Additionally, the finish has held up equally well - a source of personal disappointment as I yearn for the "well used" (not abused) look. Oh well, in time I suppose.

They both shoot truer than I can, feed exceptionally reliably, and properly cleaned and taken care of, seem to be ticking along just as well as my other more expensive pistols. The only difference being, having become intimately familiar with their operation and function, they fit me now like a well worn pair of jeans and have become my default range buddies.
 
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