Case Splits Marlin 336
- Thread starter Jabol
- Start date
If you do a search on the net, Winchester ammo and brass is very inconsistent.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=537256
However, you should have the rifle checked buy an expert before refiring, or do it under a few sand bags. Also note Hornady leverevolutions is a hot load.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=537256
However, you should have the rifle checked buy an expert before refiring, or do it under a few sand bags. Also note Hornady leverevolutions is a hot load.
Here is a comment from the link you provided:
"The Winchester Metric calibers are actually loaded by Sellier and Bellot.
While I have had no experience with 6.5X55 ammo, I have had the same experience with Winchester 7.62X54 Russian.
This is likely caused by poor annealing or no annealing of the case heads by S&B during manufacture."
The two types of brands I tried was Winchester and Sellier & Bellot. This would seem to explain why both split in the same spot. Thanks for the useful link.
W-W and S&B 6.5X55 are not the same. S&B case head is the standard 0.474" base diameter while the W-W is 0.469"... wich is not seen in European-made ammo in 6.5X55.
I have some S&B cases in that caliber and they were reloaded (with hot loads) over 10 times each without even one failure.
Regarding your problem, I think before firing any other ammunition thorough it you should as a minimum measure your spent brass and then be able to make a comparison - if you have the right tools to do so, of course. Doing so may even reveal chamber dimension problem(s), if there are any. A new case should be slightly smaller than a spent cases, but not a lot - check out SAAMI chamber / case specs to compare. From there you'll be able to take a decision and see if you need to return the rifle to Gravel and / or a local gunsmith or use it with other make(s) of ammo.
I have some S&B cases in that caliber and they were reloaded (with hot loads) over 10 times each without even one failure.
Regarding your problem, I think before firing any other ammunition thorough it you should as a minimum measure your spent brass and then be able to make a comparison - if you have the right tools to do so, of course. Doing so may even reveal chamber dimension problem(s), if there are any. A new case should be slightly smaller than a spent cases, but not a lot - check out SAAMI chamber / case specs to compare. From there you'll be able to take a decision and see if you need to return the rifle to Gravel and / or a local gunsmith or use it with other make(s) of ammo.
I'm pretty sure S&B does not make Winchester 30-30 ammo. When did 30-30 become a metric caliber? Old deer hunters would be turning in their graves.
Longitudinal splits usually indicate 1 of 3 things:
1. undersize diameter brass
2. oversize diameter chamber
3. multiple time reloaded brass has worn out or needs annealing
Since you don't know what's wrong, you should get a gunsmith to look at your rifle for you. Bottom line is that nobody here can give you more than an educated guess without physically having the rifle and ammo in hand.
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A happy conclusion to the story. I took my 336 out to the range again. This time I tested 10 rounds each: Remington Core-Lokts, Hornady Leverevolution, and Federal ammo. Not even one came out with splits. They came out nice, clean and shiny.
The bottom line, apparently nothing wrong with the chamber. The problem is Winchester Super X and Sellier & Bellot ammo. I still have some boxes left of both but I will steer clear of these brands. Winchester Super X worked good in other calibers in other guns but that ammo is inconsistent at best. I will stick to Remington as it gives me the best groups.
The bottom line, apparently nothing wrong with the chamber. The problem is Winchester Super X and Sellier & Bellot ammo. I still have some boxes left of both but I will steer clear of these brands. Winchester Super X worked good in other calibers in other guns but that ammo is inconsistent at best. I will stick to Remington as it gives me the best groups.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Something is very fishy here.
There is more wrong than just two brands of brass.
I've used WW brass for decades, never ever seen a split neck, even after reloading 25 to thirty times.
Find yourself a few experienced reloaders, and have them look closely at the fire formed cases, both split and not, and compare them to cases from another rifle, or specs for the fired case (chamber dimensions).
There is more wrong than just two brands of brass.
I've used WW brass for decades, never ever seen a split neck, even after reloading 25 to thirty times.
Find yourself a few experienced reloaders, and have them look closely at the fire formed cases, both split and not, and compare them to cases from another rifle, or specs for the fired case (chamber dimensions).
Yes, there is more to it than just different brands of ammo. Why do Winchester cases shoot fine in every other rifle?
Had that been my new rifle, it wuld have been on it's way back to it's maker, before the barrel cooled.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Have a close look at his pics H4831.
I think the neck, and shoulder of those cases are blown out far more than they should be.
That might be just the pic, and that's why I suggested an experienced reloader (or gunsmith) look at them. Preferably someone that shoots 30-30.
I would have sent it back too, but as that option may have expired, plan B
Generally brass will fireform to the chamber without splitting, even if chambering is generous - look at all the fireformed .303 brass that does not split.
The highroad comment referred to annealed caseheads. You do NOT want annealed caseheads. Now case shoulders and necks are a different matter, and are annealed.
The highroad comment referred to annealed caseheads. You do NOT want annealed caseheads. Now case shoulders and necks are a different matter, and are annealed.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Yes, but if you're going to see a failure during a fire forming operation, the neck splits shown are usually what you see. That's going by my own 303Epps fire forming, as well as the tremendous fire form that happens when you fire a Thin walled 38-40.
I agree on the case heads. Never anneal 'em.
Winchester brass is highly regarded brass. Now if that brass were very old, exposed to chemicals or something, I could see an issue, but I still think there are other things at play here.
But 3 other brands do not exhibit any problem. Winnnie and S&B I assume is old. I bought it off a fellow CGNer but he assured me it is not reloaded ammo....but who knows? I don't know the guy that much.
But agreed on the point that a gunsmith should look at this. Any recommended gun smiths in GTA (Toronto/Mississauga/Golden Horseshoe) area?
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Before you waste your money, go buy some fresh WW ammo he could have bought his from anywhere.
- Location
- Possum Lodge.... Bracebridge,Ontario
I live in the GTA area, but don't know to many smiths. My favorite two are Ellwood Epps in Orillia, and Grech OUtdoors in Mount Forest. Both are very good, and I have never had any problems with them or been d**ked around with. The trip to Epps is well worth the drive one day. You'll spend hours in there.
Chamber looks to be oversized, if you look at the brass on the initial post the first cartridge in the line up has almost no shoulder on the left side compared to the others, at least it appears that way to me, my 2 cents for what its worth.
So how many times does the OP have to hear "take it to a gunsmith and get it checked out"? Am I missing something here? There are folks here giving input on what might be a serious problem that might relocate his face. Thing is can you really afford to go by someone elses opinion that will not be affected by the blast? I am not able to understand that someone that has a problem with a gun that has potential serious result will ask for opinions on a forum like this. Sure get opinions but have a smith check it out first before you fire it again. Just to be on the safe side. No likee kabooms. Takes too long for the eyebrows to grow back. Then again thats just my humble opinion too... 
