.45 ACP for a Webley?

[762mm]

Hi,

I have a Webley Mk I cut down to use .45 ACP in moon clips (or .45 Auto Rim). According to my recently bought Lyman Pistol & Revolver reloading book, 5.0 gn of Unique for a 200 gn cast bullet is the starting load, which gives a pressure of about 8,000 psi. So, I recently casted some 200 gn .452's and loaded them with exactly 5.0 gn of Unique, as per the book's recommendations on a starting load. I've had poor accuracy with loads that were too weak (less than minimum) in the past in my other old guns, so I decided to stick with the recommended minimums from now on.

So, my question is, would that kind of pressure be too much for the old girl to handle? It's only about a third of the some of the max pressures of the .45 ACP as per my book, but I just wanted a second opinion. I'd hate to permanently damage a 120+ year old piece of firearms history... not to mention my hands, lol! I do remember reading somewhere that most antique six-shooters have to be kept under 10,000 psi (or so) for safety reasons, but a second opinion on this would be very appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Craig0ry]

Its probably already broken, Might as well give it to me

But I was usuing 5.5 grns of Unique for my loads with 200gr SWC, I ran out of unique, I was givin 4lb of bullseye, So i started loading with 4grns of that, It says pressure is 200 more but the recoil felt extremely reduced, But then again Iam not using a revolver, So non of this probably helps you

 

[762mm]

Its probably already broken, Might as well give it to me

But I was usuing 5.5 grns of Unique for my loads with 200gr SWC, I ran out of unique, I was givin 4lb of bullseye, So i started loading with 4grns of that, It says pressure is 200 more but the recoil felt extremely reduced, But then again Iam not using a revolver, So non of this probably helps you

Thanks for the info... If I had a 1911, then I surely wouldn't worry about it, haha.. but Webleys are different beasts and they cannot be subjected to pressures anywhere near what a standard factory .45 ACP puts out. Hence my inquiry.

As for giving away the Webley, I think I'll hang on to that one... it's a very interesting conversation piece even if I wasn't able to fire it at all.

 

[jethunter]

Max pressure for the webley MkII .455 cartridge is set at about 12000 psi and this is probably as high as your revolver was originally designed for. 10,000 psi would be a good conservative ceiling to ensure your revolver lasts forever, but personally I would not be worried about running at 11000 to 12000 psi in a revolver that's in good shape. But that's for you to decide.

I ran the Quickload program using .452" 200 gr bullet in a .45AR case and a 4.5" bbl with .452" grooves.

5.0 gr unique: 8100 psi, 700 fps
5.5 gr unique; 10000 psi, 755 fps
6.0 gr unique: 11300 psi. 800 fps

These are estimates only. There are variables that could raise pressure higher - throat diameter, bullet hardness, seating depth, crimp, etc. etc., but looks like you have some room to increase your load and still be in safe territory. Would be interesting to chronograph these loads in your revolver and see how close the Quickload calcs are.

 

[762mm]

Max pressure for the webley MkII .455 cartridge is set at about 12000 psi and this is probably as high as your revolver was originally designed for. 10,000 psi would be a good conservative ceiling to ensure your revolver lasts forever, but personally I would not be worried about running at 11000 to 12000 psi in a revolver that's in good shape. But that's for you to decide.

I ran the Quickload program using .452" 200 gr bullet in a .45AR case and a 4.5" bbl with .452" grooves.

5.0 gr unique: 8100 psi, 700 fps
5.5 gr unique; 10000 psi, 755 fps
6.0 gr unique: 11300 psi. 800 fps

These are estimates only. There are variables that could raise pressure higher - throat diameter, bullet hardness, seating depth, crimp, etc. etc., but looks like you have some room to increase your load and still be in safe territory. Would be interesting to chronograph these loads in your revolver and see how close the Quickload calcs are.

Many thanks!! That's exactly the kind of info I needed! I have to get myself that Quickload program, as I like to double check what it says in my reloading books. When time allows, I also plan on getting a Chrony and testing a whole bunch of old wheelgun loads, then report my findings right here on CGN.

 

[jethunter]

Many thanks!! That's exactly the kind of info I needed! I have to get myself that Quickload program, as I like to double check what it says in my reloading books. When time allows, I also plan on getting a Chrony and testing a whole bunch of old wheelgun loads, then report my findings right here on CGN.

Quickload is great for loading old cartridges. Reduces the guesswork in finding a starting point and choosing powders. Couldn't go without it now.

 

[johnone]

7.62mm;
Yes quite a few of the old Webleys were modified to accept .45acp ammo.

The big problem is the fact that .45acp is .451-.452 diameter, whereas the .455 Webley can be anywhere between .455 and .460 so using anything less than the correct diameter will provide marginal accuracy at best....

That is one of the reasons that most commercial loaders used hollow base lead bullets....

John

 

[jethunter]

7.62mm;
Yes quite a few of the old Webleys were modified to accept .45acp ammo.

The big problem is the fact that .45acp is .451-.452 diameter, whereas the .455 Webley can be anywhere between .455 and .460 so using anything less than the correct diameter will provide marginal accuracy at best....

That is one of the reasons that most commercial loaders used hollow base lead bullets....

John

Some people on here have gotten good results using .452" bullets but as you said it depends on the bore diameter, and maybe also bullet hardness and if your load has enough pressure to bump up the base into the rifling.

I've had excellent results loading the .454" (long colt) bullets in .45AR and .45acp cases to use in the old webleys. if you use soft cast bullets (almost pure lead) they seem to bump up enough to grab the rifling well and cost less than 1/2 what the "webley" .455 HB bullets do.

 

[Gibbs505]

Many thanks!! That's exactly the kind of info I needed! I have to get myself that Quickload program, as I like to double check what it says in my reloading books. When time allows, I also plan on getting a Chrony and testing a whole bunch of old wheelgun loads, then report my findings right here on CGN.

Don't forget to inculde pic's now!!

 

[vviking]

762,
Results from my 1st and only chrony session.
Webley Mk1, 45acp, .453" bore/.,451" throats.
Fed. brass, ww lg. pistol primer.
.454", 245gr keith swc, cast of ww., tumble lubed.
Firm crimp in groove.

Unique-5.2gr.=620fps @35fps e.s. 5" group @25yds. left 3".
Unique-5.6gr.=680fps @62fps e.s. 3" group @25yds. left 2". high 2".

Felt very comfortable to fire.

Conventional wisdom say's my throats are too small for good accuracy. Am going to open them to bore dia. before ordering a custom LBT mold.

 

[jethunter]

762,
Results from my 1st and only chrony session.
Webley Mk1, 45acp, .453" bore/.,451" throats.
Fed. brass, ww lg. pistol primer.
.454", 245gr keith swc, cast of ww., tumble lubed.
Firm crimp in groove.

Unique-5.2gr.=620fps @35fps e.s. 5" group @25yds. left 3".
Unique-5.6gr.=680fps @62fps e.s. 3" group @25yds. left 2". high 2".

Felt very comfortable to fire.

Conventional wisdom say's my throats are too small for good accuracy. Am going to open them to bore dia. before ordering a custom LBT mold.

Every MkI or MkII I've measured has a throat that's tighter than bore. All of them are nearly the same dimensions as yours. Soft lead bullets work in mine, which is identical throat and bore dimensions as yours. The softer bases seem to expand to grab the rifling. I've gotten excellent results from soft cast 250 gr .454" bullets. Ben Hunchak can fix you up with some if you don't cast your own.