IPSC Caliber Question

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Artilery92

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Hey everyone, I'm in the middle of my firearms license process (sent out my pal application) and will be getting my own handgun once my license arrives. I plan to start doing IPSC once I get used to my gun and feel comfortable firing it. Now, I'm looking at either the S&W M&P9 or the M&P40. My question is, will I be crippling myself by going with the M&P40 as far as IPSC competitions go, or is seeing someone shoot .40 a common thing? I'm just thinking it will be tougher to get back on target in between shots.

This handgun will not strictly be used for IPSC as I will want to target shoot with it, and maybe even bring some friends to the range to introduce them to shooting. I kind of want to get the .40 just because I can see myself having more fun with a round that kicks more, but I'm also considering the fact that I want to do IPSC and maybe put it in to the hand of people that have never shot before (under direct supervision of course). Would .40 be a little too much for a new shooter? I know there is no straight answer for these questions, I realize that, but I'm mainly looking for a few informed shooter's personal opinions.

Thanks in advance guys!
 
9mm is a minor caliber in IPSC production division. 40 S&W is major and there is no advantage in production division (other than slightly bigger hole). You can download the .40 S&W to minor power factor for production division. If you reload, buy the 40, if you don't, get the 9.
 
Stonehouse said it, but for clairity. Get the 9mm the gun you are looking at is a better fit for production division then standard division.

Also ammo is a bit cheaper and recoil is over rated.:D
 
In addition to the difference in hole size, and cost of ammo, I believe major scores different than minor in IPSC.

Like StoneHorse and Jason say ... go with the 9mm.
 
Winchester3030 said:
In addition to the difference in hole size, and cost of ammo, I believe major scores different than minor in IPSC.

Like StoneHorse and Jason say ... go with the 9mm.
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Not in production division.

+1 on the 9 (and I don't have one) but if you have really deep pockets the 45 is just "right".
 
RUPZUK said:
Not in production division.

+1 on the 9 (and I don't have one) but if you have really deep pockets the 45 is just "right".
Click to expand...

I can't shoot .45 at my range unfortunately :(

Thanks for the insight everyone, hmm maybe the nine would be a better choice. Plus it's a little more friendly to potential guest shooters..:)
 
I have the .40, the 9 and the 9 pro. If you can get the pro it's worth the extra dollars.

I shot my .40 downloaded to a 132 pf for a few seasons, if you decided to go that way and are handloading, I can give you a great recipe that is softer shooting than the 9mm load I have with the same power factor.
 
Here is my experience!

Hi there...

I just wanted to let you in on my experience. I started shooting handgun about 2 yrs ago. Got my RPAL and then purchased a Springfield XD 9. It was my first handgun. Not having anyone to advise me i thought it was a good purchase and proceeded to get my black badge and shoot in IPSC production division.

This was a frustrating experience because of number of factors.. First it was my first handgun and I really needed to learn how to shoot (as pointed out so promptly by a number of the CGNs members). Second the XD is a polymer frame gun and was very light, which made it hard to shoot for me a newbie. Looking back i think this was due to the exaggerated muzzle flip because of the light weight of the gun and the fact that i did not know how to shoot it.. :D..

What i ended up doing was going to a full metal gun. A Tanfoglio Limited Custom in .40 S&W was what i ended up purchasing. It was alot more expensive than the XD9 but i have now learned to shoot it.

Ok here comes the advice. If this is your first handgun and you want to shoot IPSC production i would consider going with a CZ SP01 Shadow (A full metal gun in 9mm). Price wise it is about the same money. The shadow is a well constructed gun and many people in production shoot them. In addition i think that it will be easier to learn to shoot because it is a heavier pistol and will allow you to manage the recoil. It will also cut down on those beginner frustrations while you are learning to shoot and learning the sport.

Just my thoughts.. Just wish i had this advice before i purchased that XD safe queen. (not that i would have listened,:D)

Oh yah.. another small piece of advice.. make sure you look at those front sites for each shot. I dont think i did for about the first 6 months in IPSC.. :D

If you really want a slick production gun... Go to the Freedom Ventures web site (A site sponsor above) and take a gander at the Tanfoglio Stock II, a gun specifically designed for IPSC production division.. (but they are pricey)...

RDG
 
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Sorry RD I disagree. I owned a Tanfoglio Stock II and even with the double action pull better than a Shadow, it is another learning curve to go through for a first time competitor.

Stay with a striker fired gun, Glock, XD, M&P ( I know they are not all technically striker fired). Focus on trigger control, reset and your front sight. We have a few shooters here that made GM with a M&P and have since changed guns to a GP-6.

Once you have shot a season or two and have made B class, then look at playing the arms race.

Steve
 
4string said:
Sorry RD I disagree. I owned a Tanfoglio Stock II and even with the double action pull better than a Shadow, it is another learning curve to go through for a first time competitor.

Stay with a striker fired gun, Glock, XD, M&P ( I know they are not all technically striker fired). Focus on trigger control, reset and your front sight. We have a few shooters here that made GM with a M&P and have since changed guns to a GP-6.

Once you have shot a season or two and have made B class, then look at playing the arms race.

Steve
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Hi Steve..

I have never shot a DA/SA pistol myself so i dont know how the learning curve is for a DA/SA gun. There are a number of shooters in our club that have started out with the Shadow as their first gun and are doing very well in a few months of shooting. One advantage of a polymer frame gun is that you can also shoot IDPA with no mods. I hear that the shadow needs new grips to make the weight restriction in that discipline.

RDG
 
Ok, I will give you my comments, which will mirror what I've been saying to new shooters for years. I DO realize you're not asking for advice re gun, but rather about caliber, so my answer is a little bit of an overkill, but hey, I had a few moments to write it. Maybe some other new shooters will benefit from it.

Whatever gun you get has to have a min level of reliability. I.e. it can't keep on jamming, misfeeding, failing to eject, etc, etc on you. Most of the current guns on the market will meet this requirement.

The gun has to have a min level of consistency ("accuracy"). It has to put the rounds more or less where the gun it aimed - again, most guns on the market these days will meet this requirement (you might need to look into bullet types and weights and shapes to get the BEST performance, but most will be fine for a new shooter).

Then, the most important thing, is how the shape and size of the gun matches your hand. That is THE most important factor which will determine how well you'll do and how well you'll enjoy it. This is something which ONLY YOU can determine for yourself, no one, NO ONE can tell you which gun will be best for you. This is much more important than minor technical differences like SA/DA or striker fired - the difference between SA and DA pull can easy be learned to deal with, but if the gun fails to fit well in your hand, if it "feels" strange and weird when it recoils in your hand, if it comes back slightly off side when it recovers from the recoil, those things will follow you as long as you shoot your gun (of course being able to comfortably fire it both SA and DA IS part of the evaluation process, so if you just can't manage that gun's DA, well, that's a factor too - but lots of gun's DA pull can be greatly improved with practice and replacement parts).

Some people like the Glocks, and tell every new shooter "get a Glock, you can't go wrong with a glock". I f**king hate how glocks feel in my hand - doesn't matter how many world champion wanna-bes are shooting them - but that's just me.

Some people like the 1911 angle of gun - I hate it, and I can't shoot it - doesn't matter how many champions in Open and Std divisions shoot guns based on the 1911 frames - but that's just me.

Some people like the cz-75 style of guns (which include "clones" like the baby eagle). This is the gun which works for me - the first time I picked up a CZ-75 it felt like a glove slipping onto my hand. In time I migrated to a baby eagle, because it recovers better in my hands from the recoil (yes, even better than a CZ-75SP01 Shadow, for me).

You need to find a gun which "feels" right for you, at the very least when holding it, and preferably when shooting it - if you have the option, try shooting different styles of guns, until you find one/some which you love.

The guns which you love will help to determine caliber and IPSC division (divisions are groupings of shooters using the same style of equipment, to be scored against each other - sort of trying to compare apples to apples, score wise).

For example, if you find you love a 1911-style gun which is only available in SA, well, then you can't shoot in the Production division, so you'll be planning for Standard, in which case .40 is the way to go (I believe it's the most popular caliber in Standard). But if the gun you like/love is a standard duty-style gun, which is on the Production division approved list, then definitely get it in 9mm.



So, if you like the M&P, if that's the gun you love and want, it's a Production division approved, duty-style gun - go for 9mm :)
 
I agree the 40 S&W can be downloaded to Power factors that rival 9mm popcorn fart loads:p and did it for a few years with an XD 40. The bullets are slightly more expensive per thousand than 9mm bullets, but it is still a fairly economical choice - I would not let the .40/9mm debate deter anyone from purchasing a .40 cal gun and think they cannot still be competitive in IPSC Production Div.
 
I am going to say something controversial here.

Your first gun should be 22 and I strongly recommend to shoot a bullseye for at least few month (including going to bullseye matches and getting some basic coaching in the stance, trigger control, sight picture and follow trough) before even getting a 9mm gun. This will establish a foundation and good habits for trigger control and accuracy, which would be much harder to get with a 9mm and higher caliber gun. also note that 22 ammo is cheap as dirt compared to 9mm and higher calibers, so you will be able to shoot much more for the same money.
 
.40 S&W Low PF Loads?

Any chance you guys would care to post a formula for a low PF .40S&W load?

Part of the OP's question was whether or not he would be "crippled" by getting an MP40 and shooting IPSC. The answer is: not if you have low PF loads.

What is a decent starting place for a low PF .40S&W handload?
 
1riot1ranger, there isn't really any reason to use .40 for minor. You can, of course, do that, but you need to take into account that .40 ammo or its components are simply more expensive. All in all, you'll be able to shoot and practice more with 9mm and if you are buying a new gun, get the 9mm.
 
1riot1ranger said:
any chance you guys would care to post a formula for a low pf .40s&w load?

Part of the op's question was whether or not he would be "crippled" by getting an mp40 and shooting ipsc. The answer is: Not if you have low pf loads.

What is a decent starting place for a low pf .40s&w handload?
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pm sent
 
If you have to ask this sort of question - go with 9mm.
It seems you are new, don't reload and may not wanna spend too much money on setup.
Gun will cost you about 1/2 of the full setup including belt, extra mags, pouches, hearing and eye protection and so on. And to get competitive, you'll need to burn some $$$ on ammo and club membership/s and travel and so on.
When and if you are ready to take it to next level, you'll know what .40 gun is there for you.
You can still be very competitive (and learn and improve) with your very first 9mm gun for veeeery long time.
 
I'd say :
step #1: find a 9mm that fits your hand well an shoot Production while having fun
step #2: buy a .357 Mag or a 44 Magnum to impress the friends with the recoil

SB
 
practice first and chose wisely

o.k... here's my 2 uh, 3 cents.

- if you're totally new to shooting pistols and guns in general.... I definately agree with you shooting for a while to just get comfortable with shooting in general, shooting safely, shoot fairly accurately and being totally comfortable with a pistol in your hand, period....

and then get into ipsc... i'm old school in that I don't agree with new shooters getting their PAL and taking up ipsc so soon...you should be really safe and good with a gun, like 2nd nature, to be able to take it to this next level.... and yes, you will be black badge trained, but it so easy to make a mistake in ipsc style shooting.... All of us have done so and been disqualified at a match, etc... or worse an accident cause harm or worse...

so, I say you should put a few thousand round down range before getting into ipsc and don't be shy to ask some one, Hey, i can try a few rnds of that, we'll all say...ya cool I'd love for you to try my gun....get a feel for them before chosing one, as Omen Said, and he's Bang on, the gun HAS TO FIT RIGHT in your hand... I dont care how cool that or this gun is or finish it comes in, etc.....when you first pick it up, if it feels like is was molded for you hand at birth and you just found ? That's gonna be the one baby !!

So don't rush to pick a gun. re: calibre... If you pick a gun thats going to be production, than 9mm... no reason to have higher recoil, spend more money on bullets, just to have to super download handloads to make it shoot like a 9mm, right...
and your friends who you'll be introducing to the sport will get a woody if you let them shoot anything more powerfull than a .22, so don't let that be a factor in such an important decision......

in re: to starting practice with .22, in theory, that makes sense, but I couldn't do it....if you're at least comfortable shooting a calibre such as 9, and you're not intimidated by it and relativley shoot at ease...just continue with that, but practice and not just throwing bullets down range.. get some guys at club who seem to be good at it give you advise on such....

again, I know how horny you are to run and order the dam gun, but be strong and try to shoot these various options at your club before you buy...

If and when you take advise from others, the advise will vary quite alot, but the money is on taking advise from either the top shooters in our sport and/or the experienced ones...

the fun part, re: gun types, the type to try and hope to find that right fit:

- CZ Shadow - great all around gun
- Tangfolio
- m&p
- Glock
- Beretta
- Sig
- gp6
- whatever else you think of, try it...

in no specific order...I do also agree with whom ever posted going with metal gun, especially if going to ipsc soon...it will likely be more shootable for you...though a seasoned and good shooter can pick up whatever and make music with it... I'd say go steel.... for the last time, make sure it feels good and you shoot well with it......

and you'll likely (lke most of us) buy and sell and change your mind...

Good luck !
 
Snowboy said:
I'd say :
step #1: find a 9mm that fits your hand well an shoot Production while having fun
step #2: buy a .357 Mag or a 44 Magnum to impress the friends with the recoil

SB
Click to expand...

cheaper way - 3" slug out of pistol-gripped shotgun will impress them too :D
 
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