Range report - Issues - HELP!

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C9er

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1st time to the range with the new scope mounted on the M14s. It's a bushnell elite 3200 3-9X 40.
I have the smith enterprises weaver mount with leupold rings.
South african ammo.

I set up at 25 yrds. aim dead centre... barely hit the paper bottom right-hand corner - about 12" down & 12" right. Squeeze off another 2 to make sure it's not me - only bright side of this story - very nice group, all 3 holes touching each other. So time to adjust zee scope...

12 clicks left, 12 clicks up... excitedly fire off remaining 2 rounds expecting 2 bullseyes... nope. POI hasn't budged!? :eek: (except a bit due to my hasty shooting)

I eventually ended up cranking the windage & elevation adjustments all the way up & all the way left AND I AM STILL way low & right!? I was so annoyed I don't even recall exactly how off. :mad:
It's important to note that the POI did move in the right direction as I was adjusting it, just not enough.

So, I removed the mount to try and see if there was a way to compensate but those of you who know the smith mount (well, most m14 mounts) its not really designed to be adjusted. I suppose it is possible to shim it, but this is not my preferred avenue.

As I'm putting it back together I'm thinking 'sticky reticule" so I spin the adjustments all the way in both directions then guessestimate it back to 0. Shoot. same f'n issue. But this time I only adjust the elevation and in small increments 3-4 clicks at a time and making sure to tap the scope between each adjustment. This seemed to have an effect because I got my closer than before. But in the end I am still off, and I'm shooting at 25 friggin yds so imagine the 1 or 200... On that note I did move to 100 at this point and fired 10 rounds to confirm. It had to be ~24" low and 12" right :puke:

Maybe I should post this in the optics forum?

Any help from someone who has experienced this (And hopefully resolved it! :) would be GREATLY appreciated.

C9er
 
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Try switching the rings front to back, this should help you for elevation maybe even for windage

E
One click at 25 is 1/16 of an inch so this is normal
 
Gotta get the smith mount level with the rifle. I had the smith mount. set the rifle in a vise Level the rifle. then mount the scope base and level the scope base. you will notice that when you tighten the side bolt the mount will cant to the right, A least mine did. You should have the instruction with the mount. Kinda tricky but it worked for me. I used two Torpedo levels to get it to work. one on the rifle and the other on the scope base. It took a while but I finally got it. Hope this helps.
 
Another option is Millet Angle Loc rings that have windage built into the rings to take care of issues like these. Not all bases are created equal and I ran into this issue with my Savage Mk II FV where the scope did not have enough windage to take up a misaligned base.

Scopes don't like to be all the way left or right so I would suggest either tweaking your base a little, try turning one or both rings 180 degrees (not sure this is wise, confirm with others before you attempt) or switching out to a ring that has windage in them.

Hope this helps. Don't get frustrated, this (as far as I'm concerned) is a common issue when mounting a scope. Not all bases are created aligned to the bore.
 
Satain said:
Sounds like the scope mount was not properly installed.
What is the exact model of your smith mount?
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with a similar 3200, not that it's the scope. Read Skullboys sticky on mounting to the M305 receiver. They aren't always to spec which can adversely affect your mounting/zeroing. The mount is probably not on correctly or firmly- in spite of your best efforts. That sticky is extremely helpful.
 
Polar Man said:
Yep, check the sticky. Frozen Snakes seems to be onto something, though.
Click to expand...

Rugerman said:
I had the same problem with a similar 3200, not that it's the scope. Read Skullboys sticky on mounting to the M305 receiver. They aren't always to spec which can adversely affect your mounting/zeroing. The mount is probably not on correctly or firmly- in spite of your best efforts. That sticky is extremely helpful.
Click to expand...

Satain said:
Sounds like the scope mount was not properly installed.
What is the excate model of your smith mount?
Click to expand...

Frozen Snake said:
Gotta get the smith mount level with the rifle. I had the smith mount. set the rifle in a vise Level the rifle. then mount the scope base and level the scope base. you will notice that when you tighten the side bolt the mount will cant to the right, A least mine did. You should have the instruction with the mount. Kinda tricky but it worked for me. I used two Torpedo levels to get it to work. one on the rifle and the other on the scope base. It took a while but I finally got it. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Hi Guys, thanks for help. But, I can't find any scope mounting info in the stickies by skullboy. I've just read them all (again). There's a bit about the subject in Lazerus' post, but he is actually talking about the SA receivers being out of spec, not the Norc ones!
 
Please post your make and model of the scope mount and I will post you the mounting instruction's. Follow them to a T & if you still have this issue then your best bet will be to hit up a clinic or get 1 of the guru's to give it the once over.
 
Satain said:
Please post your make and model of the scope mount and I will post you the mounting instruction's. Follow them to a T & if you still have this issue then your best bet will be to hit up a clinic or get 1 of the guru's to give it the once over.
Click to expand...
Thank Satain
I have the Smith Enterprises model 2024. I have (& followed) the instructions that came with the mount
 
With the Smith mount, there are a couple things to watch. One is that the position of the cam on the side bolt will affet the vertical cant, as will the setting of the screw at the rear of the mount where it fastens to the charger guide dovetail.

You need to get these right or it will nto work.

Also, you need to make sure the bottom spline on the receiver is absolutely free of burrs where the mount contacts or windage will be off.

Frankly, any good M14 mount should NOT be considered a drop-in install by the average Joe unless you really know what you are doing. The Smith mount is actually more forgiving then many - if you want difficult, try properly fitting an ARMS18! To get the cant close enough you basically need to tension the screws using parallels to gauge cant.
 
C9er said:
Thank Satain
I have the Smith Enterprises model 2024. I have (& followed) the instructions that came with the mount
Click to expand...
IF you followed these instruction's to a T;
http://smithenterprise.com/inst/M14_Mount_Inst_200801.pdf
Then it would lead me to believe that there must be something "out of spec". Witch means you should bring it to 1 of Hungry's clinic's or ship it out to the M14Doctor as it will be hard to figure out what the probelm is with out hands on knowledge of your pictular rifle's issue.
 
Claven2 said:
if you want difficult, try properly fitting an ARMS18! To get the cant close enough you basically need to tension the screws using parallels to gauge cant.
Click to expand...

Not to hijack the thread, but my Arms 18 mount is inbound and I'm just an "average Joe" .. should I be worried :eek:
 
Claven2 said:
With the Smith mount, there are a couple things to watch. One is that the position of the cam on the side bolt will affet the vertical cant, as will the setting of the screw at the rear of the mount where it fastens to the charger guide dovetail.

You need to get these right or it will nto work.

Also, you need to make sure the bottom spline on the receiver is absolutely free of burrs where the mount contacts or windage will be off.

Frankly, any good M14 mount should NOT be considered a drop-in install by the average Joe unless you really know what you are doing. The Smith mount is actually more forgiving then many - if you want difficult, try properly fitting an ARMS18! To get the cant close enough you basically need to tension the screws using parallels to gauge cant.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Satain said:
IF you followed these instruction's to a T;
http://smithenterprise.com/inst/M14_Mount_Inst_200801.pdf
Then it would lead me to believe that there must be something "out of spec". Witch means you should bring it to 1 of Hungry's clinic's or ship it out to the M14Doctor as it will be hard to figure out what the probelm is with out hands on knowledge of your pictular rifle's issue.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I am planning to attend the next clinic in eastern ontario. Hopefully I will have solved this by then however!

slushee said:
Not to hijack the thread, but my Arms 18 mount is inbound and I'm just an "average Joe" .. should I be worried :eek:
Click to expand...

Hijack away. whatever can spare you the grief...
 
I had the same thing happen to me when I used to own my M14 with a Bushnell Scope.

I placed a small piece of paper (pack of cigarettes works great) at the base of the ring and I was able to zero the rifle.
 
Just a suggestion, but here is what has worked for me.

Get the gun shooting straight with your irons or use a lazer boresight and aim it at a 25 yard target.

Bag it so it's sitting on the bench and on target.

Without moving the gun place the mount on gun and tighten up the receiver bolt enough that it holds but not super tight, using a lazer bore sighter while doing this makes this way easier!!!!

Set your scope on the mount, with reticule centered or recentered whatever the case may be and see where your scope is pointing. (If you can adjust your mount with scope on because of ring height and placement then mount it up, it'll be easier.) Just set it on otherwise

While looking thru the scope pivot the rear of the mount in the stripper guide until the scope is centered on target and tighten again moderately tight.

Now adjust the tension on the front so it sitting level with target.

Check horizontal (rear) again and tighten.

Once you have it pretty close tighten all 3 up. The front screw is only suppose to have a stabilizing effect and should make the mount firm but don't make the screw tight, better less than more, or you'll be twisting things and it won't hold zero to well either. Again doing this all with a lazer bore sight will make this way easier.

Once it's all tightened up you should still have enough adjustability in your scope to final zero it. If your real confident with where you got it the first time, purple lock tight it. Otherwise do a zero in to make sure and then undo things without going the whole way and doing one screw at a time purple locktight it. Locktight is a bit like penetrating oil you dont have to undo things to much and it will find it's way in the threads. Hold the gun in a way that gravity causes the locktight to flow where you need it and it will find it's way.

I know it a pita, I'm sure there are better ways, and what I wrote might not be clear, if so sorry, I tried, but that's what has worked for me.

At least you got the best mount.:)

Good luck.
 
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giwolf said:
Just a suggestion, but here is what has worked for me.

Get the gun shooting straight with your irons or use a lazer boresight and aim it at a 25 yard target.

Bag it so it's sitting on the bench and on target.

Without moving the gun place the mount on gun and tighten up the receiver bolt enough that it holds but not super tight, using a lazer bore sighter while doing this makes this way easier!!!!

Set your scope on the mount, with reticule centered or recentered whatever the case may be and see where your scope is pointing. (If you can adjust your mount with scope on because of ring height and placement then mount it up, it'll be easier.) Just set it on otherwise

While looking thru the scope pivot the rear of the mount in the stripper guide until the scope is centered on target and tighten again moderately tight.

Now adjust the tension on the front so it sitting level with target.

Check horizontal (rear) again and tighten.

Once you have it pretty close tighten all 3 up. The front screw is only suppose to have a stabilizing effect and should make the mount firm but don't make the screw tight, better less than more, or you'll be twisting things and it won't hold zero to well either. Again doing this all with a lazer bore sight will make this way easier.

Once it's all tightened up you should still have enough adjustability in your scope to final zero it. If your real confident with where you got it the first time, purple lock tight it. Otherwise do a zero in to make sure and then undo things without going the whole way and doing one screw at a time purple locktight it. Locktight is a bit like penetrating oil you dont have to undo things to much and it will find it's way in the threads. Hold the gun in a way that gravity causes the locktight to flow where you need it and it will find it's way.

I know it a pita, I'm sure there are better ways, and what I wrote might not be clear, if so sorry, I tried, but that's what has worked for me.

At least you got the best mount.:)

Good luck.
Click to expand...

It's clear. Thanks very much for taking the time.

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IMG_2745.JPG


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