Premier Reticle Scopes
- Thread starter mildot
- Start date
Well I have a Harris on my Savage, it will do for the time being.The Atlas had the benefit of coming with the AI spigot setup.I will be replacing the Harris with the Atlas, easier to use and the quality and design is a winner. At least it doesn't cost 3 grand like the scope LOL.PM me for a contact, if you go Atlas.
Don't understand why people feel the need to do calculations in their head when the other system eliminates it. Getting one of these in MOA would be a waste because the reticle is still in mils. People buying these in MOA don't understand how the scope is intended to be used.
If you struggle with mil turrets, it because you're trying to over-think something that requires no thought, making something complicated out of something that's trivia.
If you struggle with mil turrets, it because you're trying to over-think something that requires no thought, making something complicated out of something that's trivia.
- Location
- calgary alberta
Hey I'll be out your way next week, and I get to thank you in person!!
Your CS is "top shelf" and a great person to deal with!!!
BTW on the initial sight in and grouping the Savage put 5 all touching at 100yrds in a 1" square. You build a dam good rifle!!!
Cheers Darrin
Your CS is "top shelf" and a great person to deal with!!!
BTW on the initial sight in and grouping the Savage put 5 all touching at 100yrds in a 1" square. You build a dam good rifle!!!
Cheers Darrin
And what relevance do inches and feet have when you're using a matched FFP scope? None! That is what isn't being grasped here.
Lets try and break it down step-by-step with each system:
As soon as you mis-match the turrets and reticle, you've destroyed the usefulness of the set-up. Whether its mil/mil or MOA/MOA doesn't matter, as long as the reticle and the turrets are in the same units. Once you wrap your head around measuring instead of of estimating and calculating, you'll use either of them in exactly the same way.
However, the standard being adopted is mil/mil. The latest and the greatest scopes being released are all mil/mil. MOA turrets may never be offered on some models. And it if they are, it might only be in a mis-matched set-up like Premier is doing.
- Location
- calgary alberta
I agree that non-matched turrets are alot more difficult to work with. Why ANY scope maker would do that totally eludes me.
Whether you work in MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL boils down to whether you think inches/MOA or metric/MILs, bearing in mind neither are "exactly" inches or CMs.
Ranging or calling shots with an MOA reticle can actually be MORE precise as the unit of measure is smaller. 1/4MOA is obviously .250" where 1/10 mil is .360" more or less.
The ONLY advantage any FFP scope offers is that 1 can range at any power.
Personally I dislike the fact that with an FFP scope the reticle is not a constant size as with low magnification the reticle is small in the scope and at high magnification almost over powers the field of view and can obscure the target.
I do not bother ranging with my optics finding my LRF faster and FAR more precise.
The FFP/SFP has debated for years, in the end it comes down to preference.
Because the bulk of their volume comes from military sales and mils are what's wanted. A lead screw is a simple, cheap change. A second custom reticle is not, especially when it will be produced in much lower volumes. Most of the people wanting MOA don't really understand how the scope is intended to be used and insist on using it in the same way as an SFP scope anyway, so the reticle units are irrelevant.
With cheap and accurate range finders, using the reticle for ranging is really a last resort. The real advantage of FFP is speed due to the fact that you can use your reticle for hold-overs and hold offs at any magnification. Its easy because its in the same units as your dope. Imagine a battle field scenario: targets appear at random distance for short times, then disappearing (militants attacking a base). Targets are ranged quickly (or estimated) and the shooter engages them using the hash marks on the reticle for hole-overs and hold-offs (leaving the elevation turret at zero). That's the rational and the reasoning for the "Christmas Tree" style Gen 2 XR reticle. You have 8 mils of hash marks; more than enough to get a 308 out to 800 yards and beyond.
Its a shame that no one is putting on the IPSC/IDPA style tactical precision matches in Canada like they have in the US. Stages are multiple targets, at multiple distances, with movers appearing at random and they're timed. When you add time pressure, these advantages become really apparent. Estimating things and doing math in your head really falls apart under stress.
Why people insist on using a tactical setup that forces them to think about inches and cm's and do calculations in their head totally eludes me. We're talking about tactical scopes here, not target scopes. There is no reason why you should ever need to think about inches or cm's with one of these scopes. Only mils and MOA need to be thought about and both come down to just a number read from a chart or measure with the reticle, so there is no reason why MOA should be any easier than mil in any way. The only real difference is the size of the numbers and that is different for different calibers, different loads and different conditions anyway.
For the type of targets intended to be engaged with a tactical scope, that isn't an issue. This guy has some nice shots of the Gen 2XR on different targets:
http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1522
I've shot mine past 1km without any issues obscuring targets as small as 8" plates.
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As far as preference goes, a lot of people trying mil/mil FFP are doing so without being shown how it is intended to be used, and how to use it properly. They try using it like SFP and end up getting frustrated trying to do unnecessary math and conversions in their head. Its very apparent that is what the case is soon as they begin talking about liking inches over centimeters...
I used the reticle today to dial in a final "sighing in "shoot before I depart out west.
As discussed it very easy, use the reticle to measure and dial in the correction.
The turrets on the Premier are "top shelf" The scope itself is very well made and definitely worth the money IMO!.
As discussed it very easy, use the reticle to measure and dial in the correction.
The turrets on the Premier are "top shelf" The scope itself is very well made and definitely worth the money IMO!.
