Steel shot, velocities, and hunting.

Rick

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Back when lead shot could still be used for waterfowl, I went from buying the extra priced, high speed Imperial Long Range loads as a youngster who figured velocity was the ticket, to a bit older guy with patterning board experience that found out I got better patterns and cleaner kills when I throttled my loads back to 1200 fps.

I didn't figure that out without help. More than a few shotgun authorities in books and Handloader magazine pointed out that when you calculated differences in velocity for a given pellet of birdshot at 40 yards plus, the "high velocity" advantage was pretty much nonexistent out there. And getting the same patterns was much, much more difficult the more you ramped up the velocity.

So now the wife has decided she wants to be a hard core waterfowler, which means I will probably be reloading steel shot in the near future. I am left wondering how much of a game changer steel shot is versus what we learned and practiced with lead shot.

I still shoot a lot of pheasants, sharpies, and other upland birds each year with lead shot, and what I learned about velocities, shot sizes, and patterns over the year still holds. But how much of that is true with steel shot?

The general concensus seems to be steel shot patterns tighter than lead because of reduced deformation, so more open chokes give similar results beyond the pointy end of the shotgun. And you need to go up in shot sizes to make up for the lower mass of steel, and thus the faster energy loss than lead as the distances increase.

So far so good, but what about velocity? Does much of what we learned about keeping velocities somewhat pedestrian go out the window with the ability of steel to resist deformation and pattern better? Along with, presumably, advances in wad technology that would allow retaining pattern density while jacking the velocities up?

It will all get checked out on the patterning board at some time in the reasonably near future, but I am wondering if steel shot isn't a case where mid-range velocities with heavier shot charges if anything becomes a case of actually taking a step backwards?
 
being new to the shotgun game, like just a week new, but from what i have heard is that steel kills much better at faster speeds. Remington just cam out with a new load that hits IIRC 1700 fps with steel.
 
I'll tell you this... I hit four birds with Kent's new 1-3/8oz #4's (3") this past weekend, and they're the hardest hits I've had since the "good ol' days" of lead shot.

I never thought steel could hit like that, but Kent says on the box that the load is about 1,300 fps - and it hit like a TRUCK. The BBB's were none too shabby either, but they're still not like the old lead BBB used to be on geese.

All I know is that if you're looking for a good duck load this year, check out the new Kent 1-3/8oz #4's. I was literally gobsmacked at how well they worked, after so many dismal failures with steel... I'm guessing it's a new wad design that keeps it so damned tight - because I sure haven't seen steel shoot like that out of my Mossberg 835 before!

-M
 
I'll tell you this... I hit four birds with Kent's new 1-3/8oz #4's (3") this past weekend, and they're the hardest hits I've had since the "good ol' days" of lead shot.
This is an old Model 25 with a Cutts Compensator on it which will allow me to use steel shot without any worries.

But 3" loads are out... I think it's best to stick with 2 3/4 and the lighter end of things.

How do you prevent helping your dentist buy his new boat by biting on all those steel pellets, by the way? Chew very gently?
 
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This is an old Model 25 2 3/4" with a Cutts Compensator on it which will allow me to use steel shot without any worries.

But 3" loads are out...

How do you prevent helping your dentist buy his new boat by biting on all those steel pellets, by the way? Chew very gently?

Steel because of its hard nature tends to fly through birds or get stuck in the breast bone. For your purposes I would look into Kent Fasteel I have had excellent luck with their 2 3/4 inch 2's. When you start loading steel, try to replicate their velocities. Steel shot kills by hemorraging more so than the lead you are used to, be prepared to wring a few necks or let the birds bleed out.Also keep an eye on birds that seem alittle off after being shot at every now and then you will get one that sails away but is lungshot and crash lands a few hundred yards away.
 
Higher speeds and lighter shot loads are the way to go with steel shot. With the way steel patterns you can get very consistant and thorough patterns with less pellets, not to mention a 1 1/16 oz 23/4 load of steel 4's has almost as many pellets at the old lead stand by of 1 1/4 4's. I know of guys reloading 1oz and 7/8 oz of steel in 2 3/4 shells and pushing them to over 1600 fps and getting over 80% patterns at 40 yards. If you want to learn about handloading steel effectively join duckhuntingchat .com. Talk to Ned S.
Until you start to handload try the kent fast steel 1 1/16 2's and 3's they work fantastic for me, just keep your shots inside of 40 yards and get infront of those birds and the rest will sort itself out.
 
I have gone back to slower steel load this season and I can say that if centered properly, a heavier payload would drop them like a sack of potatoes.

While the faster loads have better penetrations, I found a higher payload gives me a much better odds of breaking a wing and multiple hits on the bird. I'm not a big fan of a heart lung shot geese that glides to the other side of the field. Denser pattern also means that a well lead bird would have more shots to the head and neck which translate to a cleaner kill.

Also, without all the extra penetrations, there are less pellets in the meat which is a bonus to me as well.
 
I'll tell you this... I hit four birds with Kent's new 1-3/8oz #4's (3") this past weekend, and they're the hardest hits I've had since the "good ol' days" of lead shot.

I never thought steel could hit like that, but Kent says on the box that the load is about 1,300 fps - and it hit like a TRUCK. The BBB's were none too shabby either, but they're still not like the old lead BBB used to be on geese.

All I know is that if you're looking for a good duck load this year, check out the new Kent 1-3/8oz #4's. I was literally gobsmacked at how well they worked, after so many dismal failures with steel... I'm guessing it's a new wad design that keeps it so damned tight - because I sure haven't seen steel shoot like that out of my Mossberg 835 before!

-M

:agree: wholeheartedly with this.
 
I like moderate payloads of very fast steel pellets. I have settled on Faststeel 2-3/4" #1's the 1-1/16oz. load at 1550 fps out of a modified choke for all my waterfowling. And I do shoot a lot. 1-2 cases a season. I mainly shoot over decoys and in the field not over water, for mixed bags of mallards, snows, lesser canadas and greater canadas. Pass shooters of Greater Canadas may have other needs, but this load works very well for my situation and I have tried many others. The 3" 1-1/8 oz loads would work as well or maybe a tiny bit better.
I have found that high speed does work better when shooting birds with steel, and agree that it does not help lead patterns or lethality.
 
I actually prefer steel all around, and use it for upland now as well, and even starting to load it for clay shooting soon. I like the tighter patterns, and my longest shots have been with steel as I find my pattern holds a lot further out. I've used both 1,320fps and 1,550 fps, I found better performance at 1,320 fps in my gun, more consistant lights out kills. I'm not sure why as I haven't taken both loads to the pattern board, likely the 1,320fps load is patterning better out of my gun. I also like with steel I'm not feeding my family lead pellets, and meat with lead streaks through it. Just chew cautiously.
 
The late Stan Baker (shotgun guru and master gunsmith) told me personally never to shoot steel shot through any Cutts compensator or external choke system. He had seen too many that managed to sail off the barrel along with the shot. Since he had worked on thousands of shotguns over his lifetime I figured he knew what he was talking about. Since so many modern steel shot compatible shotguns are available it does not make sense to me to use a choke system designed for lead shot.
 
I loaded steel for a number of years for ducks but have not in the last 6 years. When I did load I found thru trial and error that speed kills. I used to load 1 oz #2's going 1590 fps. We mostly hunted over dekes and the birds were mostly within 15-25 yards but I killed plenty at over 50 yrds with the right amount of leed.
 
Well Stan Baker certainly is an expert on barrels, so what he say's is gold. AS for the speeds of steel vs. lead, lead shot deforms easily if pushed too hard, mushed up against each other it causes flat spots on pellets. When loaded to hot/fast, these pellets tend to not pattern as well as they would with milder loads. Steel on the other hand does not deform and patterns just as well, or the same, even if pushed at much higher speeds. While I understand the patterning part, I still don't care for the lack of killing power of steel shot at over say 30 yds. We tried it all shooting beavers this year and lead #2 shot killed much better then very fast steel BBs.
 
Well Stan Baker certainly is an expert on barrels, so what he say's is gold. AS for the speeds of steel vs. lead, lead shot deforms easily if pushed too hard, mushed up against each other it causes flat spots on pellets. When loaded to hot/fast, these pellets tend to not pattern as well as they would with milder loads. Steel on the other hand does not deform and patterns just as well, or the same, even if pushed at much higher speeds. While I understand the patterning part, I still don't care for the lack of killing power of steel shot at over say 30 yds. We tried it all shooting beavers this year and lead #2 shot killed much better then very fast steel BBs.

Beavers, at least where I come from, can be 60lbs, that's a lot different animal than a duck. Also hope you're not saying you're shooting lead into water...
 
The late Stan Baker (shotgun guru and master gunsmith) told me personally never to shoot steel shot through any Cutts compensator or external choke system.
And yet Briley makes external chokes. Like Baker, they know a thing or two about shotguns, chokes, and gunsmithing as well.

I have a hard time believing steel shot from a 2 3/4" shell going through an Improved Cylinder Cutts choke is going to put any more stress on a choke than the thousands of 3" 1 7/8 oz BB loads my father put through the .690" Super Full choke during his goose hunting expeditions. If somebody would like to make the argument it will in fact do just that, I'm willing to listen to their rational.

He had seen too many that managed to sail off the barrel along with the shot. Since he had worked on thousands of shotguns over his lifetime I figured he knew what he was talking about.
I figure Briley knows a thing or two about external chokes as well... God knows they make enough of them.

While I wasn't there when you spoke with Stan Baker, I'm willing to bet lots of the ones he saw sail off never saw steel shot. I'll bet they "sailed off" while shooting lead shot.

And that suggests to me that the problem was crappy installation of the Cutts Compensator, not the system itself. There's more than a few jackleg home gunsmiths out there.

What's particularly interesting is, Stan Baker's opinion aside, a Google search on "Cutts Compensator" returns dozens of pages. Searching on "Cutts Compensator came off" does not come up with a single return of a Cutts flying off. If these chokes are indeed flying off into the bullrushes as Baker said they are, it is curious indeed you can't find a single Internet page reporting an occurrence of this.

I'll bet if you looked long enough you could find a reference to this happening. But with all the Cutts Compensators still out there, both those that came as a factory feature on a shotgun and those installed as an aftermarket product, you would think these stories would be relatively easy to find if this was the problem you apparently think it is.

Since so many modern steel shot compatible shotguns are available it does not make sense to me to use a choke system designed for lead shot.
It makes sense to me because for $40 I have put my father's old shotgun back out in the duck blind. That has value both from not having to buy another shotgun just to shoot steel once in a while, not to mention the intrinsic value of having my Dad's shotgun back in the blind again.
 
Beavers, at least where I come from, can be 60lbs, that's a lot different animal than a duck. Also hope you're not saying you're shooting lead into water...

I take it you're really paranoid about lead poisoning. ;)

As kids, we used to carry .177 cal pellets in our mouth, that was the best place for a quick reload. That was a long time ago and no one I know has died from lead poisoning yet. A bunch of media BS.

IMO, far more birds suffer a slow demise from steel shot wounds than they ever have from lead poisoning. I agree in areas over large waterbodies with a lot of hunting pressure, it should be regulated, but over fields it should be allowed, as it used to be.

I've tried all kinds of different steel and alternative metal shotshells and have found none that kill as consistently as,for example, a Federal 3" 1 7/8 lead, be it BB,2's or 4's.

Steel sucks and I will always hate it. My $.02 and end of rant. :D
 
Sadly there is a LOT of evidence showing lead pellets affect waterfowl and predators higher up the food chain.

Yep, I did the same with pellets as a kid, carrying them in my mouth. And no, that it's harmful is not just a bunch of media BS. Just like at one time we didn't know smoking was bad for us either.
 
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